| Author |
Message |
    
D.R. Bennett
Wandering Member
Post Number:
183
Registered: 05-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, February 24, 2005 - 11:12 pm: |   |
Back when C.E. started the Musings section of this forum, which I suggested,
I was thrilled.
Now, it has almost become just another realistic chat board.
Can we return to actually discussing philosophical themes, please?
- D.R. Bennett -
http://www.drbennett.2ya.com
http://www.drbennett.2ya.com |
Frank P. Baron
Hunger Member
Post Number:
52
Registered: 10-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, February 25, 2005 - 10:47 am: | |
Philosophical themes like word games?
D.R., with all due respect, not everyone is into existential navel gazing, at least not 24/7. I have a hunch that if you start a topic that folks want to wax philosophical about, they will. If you don't, no amount of pleading is likely to convince them.
www.frankbaron.com |
Harry Simenon
Wisdom Member
Post Number:
571
Registered: 10-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, February 25, 2005 - 02:05 pm: | |
I wouldn’t mind some existential navel gazing.
At least we still have a navel to do some existential navel gazing with.
And we still can ponder about the future beyond one’s navel.
How do you recognize truth? |
D.R. Bennett
Wandering Member
Post Number:
184
Registered: 05-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, February 25, 2005 - 05:06 pm: | |
Thank you Harry
http://www.drbennett.2ya.com |
F.E. Mazur
Awareness Member
Post Number:
14
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, February 26, 2005 - 05:08 am: | |
In my tiny county, a former editor of the weekly paper started a Socrates Cafe group. Although he has left for other territory, 6-12 people, including myself, continue to show up once a month at the same location and discuss subjects of interest. It's not often possible to avoid politics, but we are becoming better at employment of the Socratic method of inquiry, which basically means a lot of questions are asked, long speeches or explications by anyone are avoided, and we do not come to a meeting with our heads full of ideas that we've read in a book specifically tied to the question of the night. And also important is that the line of questioning is permitted to go anywhere, travel any direction. We usually have a facilitator whose only purpose is to keep the discussion moving if the rest of us suddenly come up empty at any point. Perhaps we can attempt to replicate the same via message board. To that end, allow me to follow on Harry's question, How do we recognize truth?
First, I would like to know if we are going to distinguish between truth and fact. Speaking for myself, I regard fact as something small and the same for all: the train arrived on track 4 at 11;30; from earth we only ever see one side of the moon. Truth, for me, is something of a higher order, and it may not be the same for everyone. |
Sheila Schmidt
Wisdom Member
Post Number:
609
Registered: 05-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, February 26, 2005 - 07:51 am: | |
I agree that truth is something based on a higher order, but I believe that it would be the same for everyone. Does everyone recognize it? Of course not. That's one of the main reasons there is so much pain and suffering in the world. "Truth" would have to apply to all of us, and it would have to originate in our creation, or it couldn't be universal. And it is. |
Bill Nelson
Unity Member
Post Number:
1035
Registered: 10-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, February 26, 2005 - 08:14 am: | |
I'm with Sheila on that, Frank.
My opinion is there is ony one 'truth' but many interpretations. If four men set out to climb a mountain at the four cardinal points of the base, they will face different obstacles and necessarily have to have different methods of climb. But, when they reach the top, they all stand side by side. If one were to spend his time running in circles around the bottom screaming, "Come up my side, it's the only way!" he would do nothing but run in circles and never see the apex.
Bill Nelson
RISEN, ISBN 1-93301616-4
Behler Publications |
Olen Armstrong
Hsympothai Member
Post Number:
306
Registered: 06-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, February 26, 2005 - 10:34 am: | |
I would think that "truth" is that which we believe, but only that which can be supported by "fact" or repetitive demonstration.
All other things fall into the realm of "faith". (I would allow a gray-area of "not-yet-fully-proven truth" or "logically-probable truth". Something like evolution. But without full facts, that still teeters on the rim of "faith".)
***********
Truth- I exist. I live. Based on the fact that I am.
Faith- YOU exist. Based only on my viewing the results of your typing and thought process. I have no basis for the "fact" that YOU are. I accept it only on faith and proceed accordingly.
************
Truth- We live in a miraculous well-ordered universe. I see it all around me.
Faith- There is a God who guided the creation of the universe. Accepted only because my gut says it must be so, and because of the love of my wife and the light in my grandchildrens' eyes, and the gentle humor of Jack Benny, and "Rio Lobo", and Mother Teresa, and strawberry ice cream, and etc etc, ad nauseum, those things in which I choose to see God's hand or the teachings of the Nazarene. But I admit the lack of facts and so it is not fully a "truth". And I proceed accordingly.
This is an argument I have with Christians regularly: the difference between truth and faith. I usually withdraw from the discussion without pressing them too closely. Many of them would crumble if their view of their faith was shown logically to NOT be proven as truth. Only the stongest in their faith seem able to accept that without damage to their psyche. Those few have my deepest respect.
But having said that, I must admit that none of that is truth, only what I BELIEVE to be truth.
But then, I could be fulla CRAP. I often am.
And that's the truth, pphhtttt!
Olen A.
(Does your head hurt? Mine sure does.) |
Sheila Schmidt
Wisdom Member
Post Number:
610
Registered: 05-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, February 26, 2005 - 10:42 am: | |
Interesting Olen. But truth is truth, no matter what one's faith. That's sort of the point I was trying to make. I understand what you are saying about faith, and I agree, but it still doesn't change what the actual truth is. Are we, as Christians, correct when we believe what we assume to be the truth? Are the Muslims? Are the Jewish followers? Is anyone? The point is, that no matter if we are right or wrong, the truth is still the truth, and it is still present. |
D.R. Bennett
Wandering Member
Post Number:
186
Registered: 05-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, February 26, 2005 - 01:14 pm: | |
Heed these words of wisdom from Sheila.
Sheila, you are a teacher! Expand more on this. (smiles and loving it).
- D -
http://www.drbennett.2ya.com
http://www.drbennett.2ya.com |
F.E. Mazur
Awareness Member
Post Number:
18
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 28, 2005 - 05:16 am: | |
Delivery of statements, but no questions. Let me ask a few.
Unless you can define the truth, how then have you arrived at the conclusion it is universal and the same for all? Is your position the result of early inculcation, much reading and discussion with others, or otherwise?
Isn't it possible that the only universal truth is that other truths are not universally presented or the same, but are tailored by an individual's compilation of life experiences? That a pickup is perfect for Bill, a Caddy for Sheila, and a bicycle for D.R.? That they are different (yet related as true vehicles) and each gives to the owner the perfect mode of transportation? More importantly, that switching them makes the owners unhappy?
Are the higher order of truths for you and me the same for children, the mentally retarded, the scarred and wounded who return home from devastating wars? Are they the same for other living things? |
Laurel Johnson
Unity Member
Post Number:
3739
Registered: 01-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 28, 2005 - 06:47 am: | |
The reality is that universal truths remain fixed while our perception of truth varies depending on circumstance.
It's also reality that humans have no idea of what the ultimate universal truths may be. Christians, Muslims, and Jews base their perceptions on God's words. But even God said life's mysteries cannot be comprehended by the mind of man and will not be fully revealed until the time of the end. Which end? What sort of end? That is one truth that remains to be revealed.
Laurel Johnson
Author: The Grass Dance
The Alley of Wishes
Color of Laughter, Color of Tears
|
Bill Nelson
Unity Member
Post Number:
1044
Registered: 10-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 28, 2005 - 08:16 am: | |
Frank,
I don't think you're defining "truth" but rather personal choices. While Bill, Sheila or D.R. make their particular choices on "the" vehicle, it doesn't mean they have actually chosen "the" vehicle, only one for their special circumstances, while the real perfect vehicle is, say, a Hummer.What each of them choose is only "okay" and comfortable for them. You can have a mountain of data and still miss the mark.
Bill Nelson
RISEN, ISBN 1-93301616-4
Behler Publications |
Sheila Schmidt
Wisdom Member
Post Number:
612
Registered: 05-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 28, 2005 - 09:01 am: | |
Laurel stated it precisely. And it's not necessary to define truth in order for it to exist. In fact, trying to do so would probably be a fast ticket into the psych ward. |
F.E. Mazur
Awareness Member
Post Number:
19
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 28, 2005 - 09:09 am: | |
I'm going to ease out of this thread because it is proving to me what I've previously thought about discussion boards all over: they do not lend themselves well to topics such as the one underway. One of the big reasons for this, I believe, is the inability to interrupt. I could have saved Bill some typing right off when he wrote 'personal choices' had I been able to interrupt. This sort of topic, by its elusive and philosophical nature, requires constant finessing of the language, questioning, restatement, and I personally do not have the time. I thought I could shorten the path to my points by an oversimplified analogy, but that was foolishness on my part. Perhaps if some of us ever gather together for a few beers or some coffee, I'll bring up the topic. |
Fred Dungan
Wisdom Member
Post Number:
895
Registered: 10-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, March 06, 2005 - 03:48 am: | |
With internet long distance rates being so cheap, I've often wondered as to the feasibility of establishing a writers forum via multi-party conference phone line. Could one of the more technical among us speak to the issue?
http://www.dunganbooks.com/vigilantes.htm |
Pacwriter
Unity Member
Post Number:
1856
Registered: 04-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, March 06, 2005 - 05:47 am: | |
I have done conference using net meeting
it was ok
the new internet phone stuff comes in different prices - vonaphone is the most expensive one - guess they are paying for all the advertizing.
Others will not list their rates - tricky here - ripoff in the making
I've look at a couple in the .02 cent range but still fearful of the fine print
http://www.pacwriter.netfirms.com/ |
D.R. Bennett
Wandering Member
Post Number:
202
Registered: 05-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, March 11, 2005 - 02:24 pm: | |
It would get confusing. Too many people trying to voice their opinions at once.
All we ever really do here is talk in a circle anyway...never really making any conclusions about anything. But this is good! This is what life is about
http://www.drbennett.2ya.com
~ D.R. Bennett - The "Mystic" Writer |
Fred Dungan
Wisdom Member
Post Number:
928
Registered: 10-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, March 11, 2005 - 05:06 pm: | |
Perhaps we could text message each other with the messages going to individual email addresses in addition to being posted on a central message board. What we really need is visual communication, but I'm afraid that video won't become practical during our lifetimes. To me, what it's all about is faster and more effective communications. I guess I won't be truly happy until science comes up with a way to read the other guy's mind.
http://www.fdungan.com/bushwhacked.htm |
D.R. Bennett
Wandering Member
Post Number:
210
Registered: 05-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, March 19, 2005 - 01:51 pm: | |
Maybe if we stick to philosophical discussions only here,
we can get back to the original purpose for the Musings forum.
This was my original point for starting this thread.~
- D - http://www.drbennett.2ya.com
~ D.R. Bennett - The "Mystic" Writer |
Fred Dungan
Wisdom Member
Post Number:
961
Registered: 10-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, March 19, 2005 - 03:19 pm: | |
I digressed. My apologies to Mr. Bennett and the other Mindsighters.
Time for a heavy-duty philosophical discussion. Someone please break out the good stuff and it had better be bottled-in-bond. Here goes:
1. What did Einstein mean when he said that the Universe was saddle shaped?
2. Was that really Pamela Anderson in the Lit video?
3. Is Juan Valdez a narco-terrorist?
4. Where can I buy saddle soap and will I alter the Universe by doing so?
5. I was born in this country. Why can't I call myself a Native American?
6. If your big toenail turned yellow, does it mean you have a fungus?
7. Why does Pepsi taste better than Coke?
http://www.fdungan.com/vigilantes.htm |
Olen Armstrong
Hsympothai Member
Post Number:
317
Registered: 06-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, March 19, 2005 - 04:59 pm: | |
Fred,
pardon me as I digress.
1. What did Einstein mean when he said that the Universe was saddle shaped?
** He actually said IUniverse was saddle-stitched. He was an unpublished writer who was poorly translated. No one knew WHAT he meant. Once again, he was ahead of his time.
2. Was that really Pamela Anderson in the Lit video?
** Only certain parts were her. She had several body doubles for the rest.
3. Is Juan Valdez a narco-terrorist?
** No, he's an undercover NARC tracking the illegal caffeine trade.
4. Where can I buy saddle soap and will I alter the Universe by doing so?
** Buy saddle soap where you find dirty ponies, and it would ruin the IUniverse product, so don't.
5. I was born in this country. Why can't I call myself a Native American?
** Go for it, chief.
6. If your big toenail turned yellow, does it mean you have a fungus?
** Sadly, yes. But it can't be used on pizza. Wrong kind.
7. Why does Pepsi taste better than Coke?
** It has more corn sweeteners than Coke, and possibly is marketed by Juan Valdez.
With tongue firmly in cheek (the ones ABOVE the waist)
Later,
Olen A |
D.R. Bennett
Wandering Member
Post Number:
211
Registered: 05-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, March 19, 2005 - 06:19 pm: | |
Laughing...
You guys crack me up. Hey, check out the new audio file I added
to my site at http://www.drbennett.2ya.com
It's called "Are We Physical". It's about overcoming the collective mindset
and addiction. Thanks.
http://www.drbennett.2ya.com
~ D.R. Bennett - The "Mystic" Writer |
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