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F.E. Mazur
Hunger Member
Post Number:
100
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, June 04, 2005 - 04:09 am: |   |
Good piece in this Saturday morning's Times. Suggest you take a look.
http://nytimes.com/2005/06/05/books/review/05KENN01.html?8hpib |
Bill Nelson
Unity Member
Post Number:
1159
Registered: 10-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, June 04, 2005 - 08:19 am: | |
Frank,
This is not to tweak your nose (this time)
I read that the Times readership has fallen off dramatically and they
are in financial trouble.
Do you know of this? Comments?
Bill Nelson
RISEN, ISBN 1-93301616-4
Behler Publications |
Tom Elkins
Hunger Member
Post Number:
99
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, June 04, 2005 - 09:10 am: | |
The same is about to happen to Post-Newsweek, for obvious reasons. CBS-TV's news ratings have suffered a similar hit.
te
Tom Elkins
NORTH of TEXAS |
Todd Hunter
Mindsight Moderator
Post Number:
2484
Registered: 02-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, June 04, 2005 - 09:49 am: | |
Came up to a sign-in page...
Could someone summarize?
Mindsight Moderator
Check out Who Needs a Hero?
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Bill Nelson
Unity Member
Post Number:
1162
Registered: 10-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, June 04, 2005 - 09:58 am: | |
Frank'll have to summarize. I don't subscribe either.
Bill Nelson
RISEN, ISBN 1-93301616-4
Behler Publications |
F.E. Mazur
Wandering Member
Post Number:
102
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, June 05, 2005 - 04:07 am: | |
I don't think the Times is in any more trouble than most newspapers, Bill, and I suspect you read otherwise in a publication from the Right where there seems to me to be an ongoing attempt to diss any media perceived at being too powerfully liberal. Recently, the online Times announced that come September it will begin charging those of us who read its columnists (whom I think are great: Maureen Dowd, Paul Krugman, Thomas Friedman, Frank Rich, et al) about $50/year. A bit steep in my opinion, but it shows how popular these columnists are. The Times financial difficulties, at least in part, are due to the widespread blogging that now dominates the Internet.
As an aside here, let me say that I see a deliberate effort by the present Administration to weaken the free press in America. I even wonder if the recent Newsweek thing wasn't a set-up. |
Tom Elkins
Wandering Member
Post Number:
101
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, June 05, 2005 - 08:55 am: | |
Frank -
I have personal knowledge that the Koran (Qur'an - Qu'ran) wasn't flushed down a toilet. How do I know? As an experiment, I tried to flush North of Texas down the toilet. I had to call Roto-Rooter. And NOT has only 222 pages.
The reporter who "broke" the incorrect Koran flushing story, which Newsweek printed, is Michael Isikoff...the same guy who broke the correct Monica Lewinsky story. Newsweek killed that one, demanding more corroboration. So the scoop went to Drudge. Not my opinion, Frank. That's how it happened.
Most administrations of either stripe are frustrated by the free press. They needn't be. Sloppy news organizations hasten their own demise.
te
Tom Elkins
NORTH of TEXAS |
Pacwriter
Unity Member
Post Number:
1969
Registered: 04-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, June 05, 2005 - 11:20 am: | |
I agree Tom - sloppy reporting will do them in. And, I do believe we are on the verge of a media rebellion. The "sensationaling" of even the weather is getting to be a pain to those who read or watch news, weather & sports.
http://www.perrycomer.com
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Gloria Marlow
Unity Member
Post Number:
1512
Registered: 04-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, June 05, 2005 - 02:07 pm: | |
I read the article and found it interesting, though not all that surprising. I always figured the books that were on the larger displays, etc. were put there using some sort of deal between the publisher and bookstore. The amount needed to get a book there was quite amazing, but, like someone in the article said, when you're giving people the sort of advance some of these people get, it ends up that you just have to keep pouring money into their ad campaign, etc., trying to recoup your investment.
I don't see anything really wrong with this practice. Yes, it gives some books what seems to be an almost unfair advantage, but based on my own trips to large bookstores, the books on the large displays and/or ends of the aisles are generally ones people would go in looking for anyway. Either those by/about famous people, those that have been hyped endlessly already or those by well known authors.
Just so everyone knows, space on one of those cardboard displays is said to cost $20,000.00. The end of the aisle/space on a large display costs between $10,000 and $20,000 per book. These prices can be for a time period of a week to a month.
How many books by any publisher (even the big ones) are ever going to see such a display?
Gloria
The Butterfly Game
Flowers for Megan
Shades of Silence (coming soon)
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Gloria Marlow
Unity Member
Post Number:
1513
Registered: 04-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, June 05, 2005 - 02:18 pm: | |
This article may tie in why publishers are willing to spend that kind of money on the top display spots:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050605/ap_on_bi_ge/bookexpo_america
The Butterfly Game
Flowers for Megan
Shades of Silence (coming soon)
|
F.E. Mazur
Wandering Member
Post Number:
103
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, June 05, 2005 - 06:47 pm: | |
Tom, tell me something I don't already know. The 'set-up' I wonder about results from Isikoff's source, who was in the White House and was previously a reliable one. Add to that Bush's ultra-high regard for loyalty from those under his roof, and well... you used to be a reporter. Isn't that worth some wonder?
As for your last statement... I don't think this administration is "frustrated' by the free press. I think this administration just plain hates a free press, sloppy or otherwise, and wants nothing more than to have folks out there feel the same way as Pacwriter. |
Bill Nelson
Unity Member
Post Number:
1166
Registered: 10-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, June 05, 2005 - 07:07 pm: | |
Does that mean that NY Times is a "free press", untainted by liberal bias?
Bill Nelson
RISEN, ISBN 1-93301616-4
Behler Publications |
Pacwriter
Unity Member
Post Number:
1970
Registered: 04-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, June 05, 2005 - 07:58 pm: | |
In my capacity as a public person - pastor - I hear from a large spectrum of people. Believe me, people are sick of the sensationalizing of even the most trivial news item. The "Run-Away-Bride" is a prime example. the only people who care about such stories are the media news people.
this is not a liberal, right-wing, republican, democrat or any other "leaning" group - it is the common folk.
Our greatest fear is to be noticed by the "media" and be subjected to weeks of interrogation, examination and speculation. Normal people fear the "15 minutes" of modern day fame.
I'm a small time pastor and the church is forced to carry a million dollars of insurance against lawsuits just in case I offend someone and they think the offense warrants financial restitution. Should such a suit be filed, do you think the local news folks would pass over me as a news item? Headline "Pastor sued for racial slur" or Pastor sued for unwanted sexual advance or pastor sued for ????
It is a scary world with the nuts out there and the media waiting to pounce.
http://www.perrycomer.com
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F.E. Mazur
Wandering Member
Post Number:
104
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, June 06, 2005 - 12:31 pm: | |
Bill, you can answer your own question with the following analogy:
The Times is to 'free press as Bill Nelson is to 'freethinking'
Agree or disagree and you will have the answer you're looking for.
Pac, I don't disagree with a lot in your post. I often feel the same way. But there are abundant news sources in this day and age, and anyone serious about their complaints can still find good news reporting if they so desire. But too many Americans are enamored of their good fortune to be an American and they don't give a hoot, say, about what the janjaweed are doing to the poor people in Darfur.
As for that "Pastor sued..." reference, you know you wouldn't have said that a decade or so ago. The high profile religious leaders and others have now taken in recent times mean they better be cleaner than a whistle, especially when the subject they focus on most is morality. |
Gloria Marlow
Unity Member
Post Number:
1515
Registered: 04-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, June 06, 2005 - 06:46 pm: | |
Tonight was my anniversary, so we did what we always do on a romantic night out. We went to Barnes & Noble after dinner. I noticed that there were several shelves dedicated to the employees' personal choices as good reads. Each had a card stuck to the rack with the employee's name and why they liked the book. I thought it was interesting to see.
Gloria
The Butterfly Game
Flowers for Megan
Shades of Silence (coming soon)
|
Tom Elkins
Wandering Member
Post Number:
110
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, June 06, 2005 - 07:14 pm: | |
I would think it would be "our anniversary". At any rate,hope it was happy.
te
Tom Elkins
NORTH of TEXAS |
Todd Hunter
Mindsight Moderator
Post Number:
2501
Registered: 02-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, June 06, 2005 - 08:37 pm: | |
Tom, Tom...don't you know...
When one gets married, what's hers is hers, what's his is hers, and what's ours is hers...
So Gloria had it right...
;-)
Mindsight Moderator
Check out Who Needs a Hero?
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Fred Dungan
Unity Member
Post Number:
1074
Registered: 10-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2005 - 12:39 am: | |
This is my 23rd anniversary for having become unhitched from the dilapidated manure wagon that was our marriage. Life without Elizabeth is pure fun. Need companionship? Get a dog.
http://www.fdungan.com/vigilantes.htm |
Gloria Marlow
Unity Member
Post Number:
1516
Registered: 04-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2005 - 06:43 am: | |
Ooops, that was a slip-up. Okay, it was "our" 19th anniversary. Maybe I'm just never certain he has as much to be celebrating as I do. Or maybe I just said "my" because I'm the one here.
Todd, that's just not true.
Fred, what can I say to that?
Gloria
The Butterfly Game
Flowers for Megan
Shades of Silence (coming soon)
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Laurel Johnson
Unity Member
Post Number:
3921
Registered: 01-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2005 - 06:46 am: | |
Yes Todd, it is just the opposite in my experience.
Laurel Johnson
Author: The Grass Dance
The Alley of Wishes
Color of Laughter, Color of Tears
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LaurieAnne
Unity Member
Post Number:
1953
Registered: 12-2001
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2005 - 07:39 am: | |
Gee, Todd, that used to be close to true in my marriage (like Gloria, saying "my" so that readers would not construe "our" to mean yours and mine...that would be a little wierd, at least for you. LOL). However, after a long hard battle, we have reached an impasse of conjuntive efforts. The honey-do list is as much for me as it is for him, he has started taking a much more active role in the child-rearing process, and we are getting along better than we have in 5 years.
Now, back to the regularly scheduled discussion regarding bookstores and publishers: I am trying to determine the gist of the Times article through the conversation having taken place thus far. (I haven't been able to remember my password to that site in a coon's age.) From the conversation, I am judging that publishers are paying the bookstore owners for prime display space?
Before working in 2 different venues of the publishing industry, I would have been appalled(sp) to have heard of such a practice. Now, (shrugs) eh. (Like the McDonald's salad commercial.) Like Gloria stated above, if you want a product to sell, you have to do whatever it takes to get it embedded in the public memory.
Time is a precious commodity that few have to browse shelves. In my experience in the newspaper industry, I have been authorized to offer many, many things in exchange for beside the register p.o.p. space (point-of-purchase, to the lay person). Items like books, magazines, and newspapers, just like candy bars, are things people will purchase at the last minute, which is why all but the books are hosted at the checkout lane. The longer you wait in line, the more likely you are to purchase any of those items. Books haven't moved to the front of the stores just yet, but I imagine that the distributors will be working that angle as soon as they can finagle it. In my dealings with my own local bookstores, I have offered to pay for the advertising listing them as the exclusive purchase location provided they give me good shelving. Whatever works, works. You have to be creative to sell your products.
LA-ter
OPEN SUBMISSIONS: Random Acts of Kindness
Available now:
THE BUTTERFLY GAME, Gloria Davidson Marlow ISBN 0-9722385-4-9 |
Laurel Johnson
Unity Member
Post Number:
3923
Registered: 01-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2005 - 08:27 am: | |
Just like everything else in this modern age, money talks and b.s. walks. I could land more book signings and sell more books in this area if I gave away expensive, hard-to-get freebies with each sale. Candy and home made cookies or cheese and crackers won't cut it here. Local stores -- especially the Computer Store -- are more than willing to feature all three of my books on the front counter where customers check out. One month I tried an experiment and gave away a plastic coated bookmark and a bar of rose scented soap with each purchase of my most expensive book -- The Alley of Wishes. With my other two books I gave nothing free. Alley sold out. The only problem with that was the soap and plastic coated bookmarks cost me FAR more than I made on the books.
I can't compete in today's world. Don't have the discretionary funds to do so.
Laurel Johnson
Author: The Grass Dance
The Alley of Wishes
Color of Laughter, Color of Tears
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Bill Nelson
Unity Member
Post Number:
1172
Registered: 10-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2005 - 08:43 am: | |
Laurel,
You bring up the core problem of most of us. We simply don't have the money to promote ourselves beyond the local area. This, of course, is a big handicap.
There is another factor. I had an extensive--several hundred--mailing list of
ex-class mates (high school, college, AF Cadet class and others). When the first PA book came out, most(maybe 85%) of them bought it and sent me congratulations. When they saw how over priced and crappy a product it was, I'm sure most were disappointed. When the second PA book came out, the same list was solicited and the return was only a small percentage of the list. Now, the third one is out and, although it's a far, far better product, the damage is done. I'm getting luke warm reception from friends,local book stores (where I held signings previously) and family.
My ability to solicit business from this "captive" group is diminished.
I don't have the money or the time to travel far and wide to promote.
Where does that leave me?
I feel this is the plight of many who came out of the PA experience.
Bill Nelson
RISEN, ISBN 1-93301616-4
Behler Publications |
Claudia Turner VanLydegraf
Mindsight Moderator
Post Number:
2145
Registered: 06-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2005 - 10:12 am: | |
that was my primary eye-opener about the PA books and the lack of their involvement in the sales process. I had/did six signings throughout Central California and Reno with the Borders Stores and made really nice bookmarks and a real good looking display table with information sheets to hand out also, but didn't have ethe money to go on and further in my quest. Gas, Time, lodging, food while on the road eats up a huge amount of money, and when you aren't getting any help, it makes the pocketbook really thin. I had people willing to give me signings, but the distance was something I had to take into account each time I was offered one, as well as the rest of the money scope.
IF there would have been an input from PA in the marketing, (ah, well, what is the point of dreaming, cause it would never have come from them).... I might have been a happier camper with my book.
Claudia
MINDSIGHT MODERATOR
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Laurel Johnson
Unity Member
Post Number:
3924
Registered: 01-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2005 - 12:02 pm: | |
In my case it does not matter who my publisher is. I have three very different books with three different publishers. I could go from one end of the country to the other sitting on panels, being interviewed on TV, participating as a featured writer at seminars and etc. Standing invitations have been issued from several states by people who either admire my writing or are curious about me as a person or both. The local area could care less about me, but folks in other states and even other countries feel differently.
The problem is money, exactly right Bill and Claudia. I'm forced to turn down almost every opportunity offered me because of the costs involved. Unknown writers can't afford to turn down such opportunities, and most of us can't afford to take them either.
I'm grateful to my small base of fans who eagerly anticipate each new book and buy them. But I'm not a very accomplished salesman when it comes to cold calls. Being backwards as I am makes it hard to expand said fan base from home.
Laurel Johnson
Author: The Grass Dance
The Alley of Wishes
Color of Laughter, Color of Tears
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Todd Hunter
Mindsight Moderator
Post Number:
2502
Registered: 02-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2005 - 03:33 pm: | |
I imagine a few around here would agree that I'm a pretty good salesman when it comes to selling books...even when I'm not selling my own... ;-)
but there's only so far you can get with a price that's astronomical...
thus why I stopped doing any promotion...
Mindsight Moderator
Check out Who Needs a Hero?
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