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Kevin R. Paglia
Wandering Member
Post Number:
194
Registered: 07-2003
Rating: 
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 14, 2006 - 10:30 am: |   |
Some of you may remember that my wife and I want to start a retreat center. Well, last night we went and looked at land.
+We found a nice piece that wasn't as flat we we would like, but has a large pond (which I want for weddings and thought I would have to build).
+The area with the current house could hold the main hall but the cabins would have to be part of the main hall then not seperate. But I know there is a construction technique that could extend the main hall over the edge of the building site so with window walls the visitors could look down a creek that salmon come up every year. and the rooms in the main hall wouldn't be bad in Oregon with all the rain.
+There is a lot of very natural surroundings with wild apple trees, blackberries and peppermint (which smelled great last night, but also probably two to three years of work clearing out the underbrush and thining the over grown areas. But I would be able to keep a very rustic look the the grounds and there are lots of little (5-15 people) clearings that are just beautiful.
+There is no football field sized clearing for giant celebrations or sports like I wanted, but there is a 150 ydish slightly sloped area next to the pond. There is a second smaller clearing that is a two minute walk from the pond that a picnic area could be on. There is also a natuaral spring there which gives some really interesting landscaping ideas. The owner also said there was a canyon that opened up into a nice opening that he always wanted to put a cabin in.
+It backs to BLM land that has lots of wildlife and he sees Bucks and other wildlife walk through his property regularly. The current owner took out 30K worth of trees and reduced the price accordingly. The trees may have to be replanted in the next few years which will cost about 3,000.
+It's 35 minutes along the main highway (I-5) but it only too 30 the back way which is also a very nice drive. It is less than ten minutes from three small communities (Less than 1000 people each) but only 15 minutes from a larger community with everal thousand and hotels, shopping and whatever else you would need. It is 35 miles from the main community in the valley here and 39 from a second large community the other direction. It is also only an hour from the coast (the west coast).
+The price is great and as my wife keeps reminding me we could buy this now and have the main hall in possibly ten years or wait 2-3 years and buy a flatter piece but be maybe 15-20 years from the main hall. The longer I'm out of the market the more likely someone else could step in to fill the void I see.
+It's not on a major road but is only 3 1/2 miles from I-5 (for those of you who don't know that is the west coast main highway from Canada to Mexico). But there is great visability from the road it is on.
+After we built the main hall we would have to move to a new house on the same property that we would build and there wouldn't be much of a yard for the kids to play in. But they would have 23+ acres to play on when there was no one using it. But then again I was seeing it with a lot of undergrowth, there may be more than half an acre where I was thinking we would move to.
+The existing house has a decent functional kitchen with three ovens (the wife comes from a large family) so IF I was doing the cooking (that wasn't on the BBQ then I would have the three ovens to use. But it is a manufactured home over twenty years old (and nearly the size of the home we are in now). There are 4bd 2 bath and a mud room with a good sized yard (once we got rid of the chicken and dove coups. There is no DSL (yet) or anything besides dialup for the computer so my wife would have to spend a bit more time at the office.
+Of the 23 acres, probably 15 is useable with enough elbow grease. there is a very large Garage that four cars could fit in and still have storage in a seperated room in the back. There is also a non-permited barn that I would probably take down since I don't have horses (I do occasionally have a cow though).
+It is in a county that is more permissive twords development that most others around me. Their zoning laws actually allow for the kind of building we want to do providing we are a nonprofit (which is the area my wife practices for accounting). But nothing is a sure thing. I would have to meet with an Architect (who I have a contact with through my wife's office and who coincidentally was a classmate of mine in Jr. High) and someone at the planning comm. to verify that what we want is possible.
+Wife says if I say yes, she'll follow. But she's also going to have to dive 30-40 minutes a day to and from work. Right now she drives 20-25 minutes. She does fly out of the Airport more lately for trips to SAn Fran which takes her 30 now, Yahoo says it will take her 45 if we did this (But that is taking th long way along I-5).
Anyone follow this whole thing? Good.
Alright, there are most of the arguments. What do y'all think? I need sounding boards here. She's playing devils advocate (I think she just likes teasing me) for which ever way I am leaning. What else do I need to think of? Is it better to be patient (I've already waited 15 years) and spend more or enthusiastic and spend less? Would people drive up to 40 minutes for a wedding place if it was a little slice of paradise? I know the retreat group would in this area.
Kevin |
Gloria Marlow
Unity Member
Post Number:
1866
Registered: 04-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 14, 2006 - 11:30 am: | |
Kevin,
My first response to your dilemma is this:
Fleece the Lord, ask him for a clear answer on what you should do. Let Him guide you because this is a big step and He will give you the peace you need with whatever decision you all make.
However, just because you asked, I will give you some of my other thoughts on this.
It sounds like a really nice place. I would always go for enthusiastic and spend less. Those are both huge plusses in my opinion.
Does the land being flat or not make a big difference? We have just moved from a very flat area to area that has small rolling hills. I find this to be very nice. Of course, if you're talking mountains, that may make a difference.
Since I am currently looking for a place to have a wedding for my daughter next summer, I say yes people would drive 40 minutes for a wedding place if it has all the amenities such as a reception area, a place for the bride, bridesmaids, etc. to get ready, etc.
You are very right about if you don't step up and fill the void, someone else will in the next few years.
If you're talking several years before you're having to move out of the main house, your kids won't need as much room to play by then. They outgrow swingsets and things much quicker than you hope and are begging for 4-wheelers and other stuff. Now that my youngest is 12, they'd all much rather have 23+ acres to wander around on than a nice flat acre or so. Anyway, I have come to think if a change isn't going to permanently mar your children (and not having a big yard won't), couples shouldn't base major decisions on the kids. Because all of a sudden the kids have lives of their own (even before they grow up and move away) and the couple is stuck with each other and the decisions they made to keep their kids happy. Does that make since without sounding mean? Now, in that same vein, I would have to consider how much more it may keep your wife away from home although I think you're home with the kids aren't you, so it wouldn't add to the time they are stuck in day care or alone. Obviously, that is something the two of you would have to decide.
You may want to consider horses. Horseback riding is a big deal at some retreats and it sounds like people would have plenty of space to explore.
I would consider leaving some of it wild, just because that, too, could be a draw to writers or other people who just want to get away especially if there are clearings interspersed in the wild.
Things change in 15 years. Fifteen years ago, there were two housing developments in about a 20 mile radius on our side of Jacksonville and the homesites there were an acre or so each. Now, there are 30 - 40 and the homesites and there are up to 7 houses per acre in them. We moved out of town to get away from the mess that has created. Eleven years ago, we sold a 4 year old manufactured home and 6 acres for $55,000.00 --- that was a little lower than we could have gotten but not much, land was about 10,000 an acre. Right now, land in the same area is going for around $60,000.00 per acre. And it is getting hard for people to even find an acre or two of land. No one really ever expected it to happen. About seventeen years ago, the city built a bridge from the populated side of town to our side of town and everyone laughed and called it "the bridge to nowhere", even though it was a bridge to the airport, the zoo, the beaches, there was no real population to speak of.
So, in 15 years will property in your area be more or less attainable to you? Will their be land for sale? Etc. Etc.?
I am sure you have all the reasons you should buy it and shouldn't. I certainly have no idea what is best for you and your family. There's a lot that goes into a decision like that.
Most people think I'm crazy right now because my husband and I decided two months ago that we were leaving our jobs and the city where we both were born and raised and moving two hours away to a town with hardly any jobs and not many people. But we feel very at peace with our decision. We love it here and we have both been able to find jobs pretty quickly.
Good luck.
Gloria Davidson Marlow
**The Butterfly Game***Shades of Silence***Flowers for Megan**
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Claudia Turner VanLydegraf
Mindsight Moderator
Post Number:
2861
Registered: 06-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 14, 2006 - 06:33 pm: | |
KevinP,
prices and values are going up, up and away, especially in the Western half of the states. With that said, if you guys all like it, you certainly wouldn't lose any of the money you put into it, and you might make a lot more. Then there is the esthetics of the place, that is a powerful draw for weddings, retreats, or whatever, maybe some day down the road you could put up a B&B or some such and rent them irrespective of the retreat aspect.
Personally, I would talk it over a bit more with the wife about the drive time and such for her work, but IF she wants it as much as you seem to, and you guys have already talked about this dream for a long time, then she should know that the time is now or really never, because you never do know what is around the corner or bend n the road, and if you put of until tomorrow what you want to do today, you may never get to the place and time that you can get back to what you put off for tomorrow as tomorrow always holds different paths in the road....... did that make any sense to you at all???
Anyway, never wait too long to pursue a dream, because the dream often vanishes before it is caught. You can plan all you want to for something and if the right time never materializes, you lose the dream and the plan and your life turns inside out and into another direction, but the dream will still haunt you.
And you always thnk would'a, should'a, could'a, and move forward not doing any of it for the things that life presented to you to change the direction of the dream. I say go for it with a gusto that you never thought that you could possibly have, and enjoy the hell out of the possibilities.
Claudia
MINDSIGHT MODERATOR
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Kevin R. Paglia
Wandering Member
Post Number:
195
Registered: 07-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 15, 2006 - 08:30 am: | |
Wifey asked a good question last night. If we buy the land (because there would be no time for a market study, then would I be happy living on the land without the retreat center. I think I would. Actually I know I would. I could still do weddings as a home business for three or four months when it is not raining.
Aw-well, I'm going to call the county planners today and find out if they would even let me put the retreat center on there and that may help me make the decision. It's kind of like shopping for a publisher: If I find a property that is in a county (Publisher) that would let me do what I want (publish my book) then I'm going th grab the first one that comes along cause you never know when the next one will come. (Unless it's PA)
Kevin |
Stephen Lodge
Wandering Member
Post Number:
254
Registered: 06-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 15, 2006 - 09:34 am: | |
Kevin,
In looking at your photo you seem to be pretty young to be making a big purchase like this.
http://stephenlodge.com
Novels by Stephen Lodge:
"Charley Sunday's Texas Outfit!"
"Nickel-Plated Dream"
"Shadows of Eagles"
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Kevin R. Paglia
Wandering Member
Post Number:
196
Registered: 07-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 15, 2006 - 10:12 am: | |
I had just shaved. |
Kevin R. Paglia
Wandering Member
Post Number:
197
Registered: 07-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 19, 2006 - 03:13 pm: | |
Well, the planning department is telling me that the retreat center option is impossible (I never think anything is impossible) and the wedding and day use hall with picninc area is a "long shot" so now I have to decide if I want to buy the land anyway and fight the power or find a new purpose in life.
Kevin |
Gloria Marlow
Unity Member
Post Number:
1869
Registered: 04-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 19, 2006 - 06:34 pm: | |
Maybe that just means this land isn't the place for your retreat center and the right place will come along later.
Gloria Davidson Marlow
**The Butterfly Game***Shades of Silence***Flowers for Megan**
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Pacwriter
Unity Member
Post Number:
2590
Registered: 04-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 19, 2006 - 07:39 pm: | |
find out what the land can be used for from the planning people. Perhaps it can be used for a camp - you know terrorist training or boy scouts. Maybe farming - a dude ranch? Perhaps a TRAINING CENTER for loggers?
the idea is to find out what it can be used for and then adapt your purposes.
http://www.perrycomer.com
http://throughablindeye.blogspot.com/
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Kevin R. Paglia
Wandering Member
Post Number:
198
Registered: 07-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 20, 2006 - 08:47 am: | |
Oddly, I could start a youth camp with out any zoning problems, but there are already more than a dozen in the area here. The same piece of land can not have an adult retreat center of which there are only one or two in the area here which are always booked. There are a couple hunting lodges which are permited in the zoning (or fishing) but I do niether.
It is like using a shotgun for target practice, everything that is similar is landing all around my but my target is left untouched.
Oh well, we are probably heading back out to the land on Saturday for a second critical look. Maybe I can talk myself out of it.
Kevin |
Pacwriter
Unity Member
Post Number:
2592
Registered: 04-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 20, 2006 - 09:34 am: | |
did you know that retreats are regarded by law as a hotel. the same sort of insurance applies -- very expensive.
http://www.perrycomer.com
http://throughablindeye.blogspot.com/
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Kevin R. Paglia
Wandering Member
Post Number:
199
Registered: 07-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 24, 2006 - 08:48 pm: | |
Well, after a second trip out there, dragging my poor wife half a mile up the side of the mountain with all the after harvest slash (wood remains), and a short hike along the creek that runns through the property we decided not to take the land. 
There were a lot of really nice places for a retreat setup, but it wasn't going to work for a wedding place or community center.
We decided to keep our focus to the north. The land is flatter so we will have to pay a bit more for it, less likely to have a stream running through it, but it would ne more flexible for what we want to do, or for as much as we can do with it. 
On a side note,  a nieghbor a couple of doors down knocked on the door the other day with her husband and asked if they could look at the house. They know we are wanting to move (ok, I am my wife is being dragged screaming and kicking) and they want a bigger house than theirs. The wife also has foot problems and they live in a two story house. What it gets bad she can't make it to their bedroom upstairs. So they my be interested in buying our house which is bigger and single story.
So if they do then I'll have to start another thread to deal with the new property (I'm already eyeing one that is 39 acres but a bit norther than I want to go). Otherwise we will take the winter to get everything finished on our house and put it on the market officially next spring. So if any of you want to move the Eugene/Springfield area of Oregon let me know.
Kevin |
Pacwriter
Unity Member
Post Number:
2602
Registered: 04-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 25, 2006 - 05:27 am: | |
hi Kevin -- Here is the perfect place for you - but it is a few miles from where you live - only 895,000
http://www.bobvila.com/RealEstate/City/Ansonville_NC_USA.html
http://www.perrycomer.com
http://throughablindeye.blogspot.com/
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Persiphone Hellecat
Awareness Member
Post Number:
17
Registered: 06-2006
Rating: 
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 04, 2006 - 01:38 am: | |
Kevin - I am kind of new here but I feel for you, I really do. In times like this, I always rely on the words of Eleanor Roosevelt "The future belongs to those who believe in the beauty of their dreams." There IS a place out there for you. Many years ago, I let my husband talk me into passing on a great offer to purchase a Christmas Tree farm from an old couple who wanted to retire. The only requirement was that it remain a Christmas Tree farm. To me, it was magical -- the chance to grow the trees that children would dance around at Christmas and where treasures would rest beneath their boughs. Sadly, my husband disagreed with my vision and I let him talk me out of it. The marriage didnt last long after that. Now, sometimes I dream about that place -- of sitting in that beautiful Victorian house writing and looking out at acres and acres of Christmas Trees. Sighs. Don't stop believing your dreams are beautiful. Somewhere out there is your "Christmas Tree Farm." Keep on believing that and don't dreaming until you get it. Persi (PS whoever that is in the photo is adorable!) |
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