| Author |
Message |
    
Frank Mazur
Wandering Member
Post Number:
272
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 25, 2008 - 01:38 pm: |   |
Jay Leno did NOT say any of what Claudia unquestionably passed on. This crap attributed to him has been going around for awhile. You might ask yourself what kind of a person would start such a thing? Of what ideology might he or she be? And it should be even more important to you personally, if you are one who passes it on or regards it as truth, what must he think of you?
3-dollar gas. Writers' strike. Read a great book by F. E. Mazur.
SPINE
THE BUCKSELLER
"A BIGGER CASE" |
Claudia Turner VanLydegraf
Mindsight Moderator
Post Number:
3201
Registered: 06-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 25, 2008 - 02:00 pm: | |
gee Frank, I am very sorry that I don't automatically check everything I get forwarded to me with Snopes all the time. I am very sorry for thinking that some of the people who read here might just want to know that there are positive things about our country and that all this disgusting crap about "change" in politics is just that, CRAP..... How unhappy are we all, REALLY??? As far as what ever you or anyone else thinks of me for forwarding that on to this board or anyplace else, I don't give a damn. I wanted to show that contrary to public opinion and the news media, there are a lot of positive and good things about this country and all of it is NOT negative, no matter how many times we hear that we must all "change" for the better, the better of what????
Get a life Frank, and stop criticizing every little thing you find, especially ones that I might post, which seem to be your favorite target. In other words, find someone else who really cares about what you think.
And besides, I really do believe just about everything that was in that missive, and feel that even though the original quote from Leno got added to and in some respects, rewritten, the man who initally did the original other writing adding to the quote, really did hit the nail on the head in many of the points he made. So, what..... are you going to rebuke me for thinking the best of this world or this country and not always looking for the worst possible scenario to all of our problems. I prefer to see the glass as half full, rather than half empty, and I want to make it full to the top, is that a huge crime? Get real Frank....
Claudia
MINDSIGHT MODERATOR
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Stephen Lodge
Wisdom Member
Post Number:
634
Registered: 06-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 05:22 am: | |
People either write, or come across, something they like but fear no one will read it unless it has a well known name attached. There are plenty out there attributed to Andy Rooney. The one I like best has Robin Williams' name on it with content that makes him sound like an America-loving conservative - which we all know, he is not.
http://www.stephenlodge.com
Novels by Stephen Lodge:
"Charley Sunday's Texas Outfit!"
"Nickel-Plated Dream"
"Shadows of Eagles"
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Pacwriter
Unity Member
Post Number:
3139
Registered: 04-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 09:24 am: | |
I thought it interesting that Leno made a very nice remark involving the need for God to watch over us. The rest according to snopes got tagged to him because of a small formatting error.
http://www.perrycomer.com
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Frank Mazur
Wandering Member
Post Number:
273
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 10:02 am: | |
This isn't about you, Claudia! It’s about this site and those on it. Now perhaps it’s really me that’s made a big mistake, but I’ve long been under the belief that Mindsight is for writers and aspiring writers, male and female, young and old. Assuming I haven’t made that mistake, then what might a new prospect think upon seeing your post? I like to think he or she would just write it off to the fact that we all are gullible at some time or other, except what happens when that same person visits a week later, only to find that no one has objected or pointed out the fallacy of it all? IMHO, it doesn’t say much for the site and its collective caliber of thinking.
But let me make this directly relevant to you since you took umbrage. In a recent post, you wrote you might be going to a conference and speaking with an agent about NfN. Let’s say in that brief amount of time you make a favorable impression, but the agent later wants to know more about you and so she googles your name. Up comes various listings, one of which is the “Leno” post and she accesses it. Just how might you imagine that would serve you?
3-dollar gas. Writers' strike. Read a great book by F. E. Mazur.
SPINE
THE BUCKSELLER
"A BIGGER CASE" |
Harry Simenon
Unity Member
Post Number:
1773
Registered: 10-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 10:36 am: | |
Or someone in the future uses something like the waybackmachine and find out who you endorsed?
Our traces on the internet are there as long as there is an internet. You can also use it to read all the erased discussions at Mindsight if you like.
So perhaps it might be good to think about what you write before you post it.
This administration is world wide regarded as one of the worst ever for quite some time, and now also in the US itself the majority of people think this way.
Why are you still supporting this regime Claudia?
Is it that you do not believe what most people say they have done?
Or is it that you believe it but agree with what they have done? |
Pacwriter
Unity Member
Post Number:
3140
Registered: 04-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 10:42 am: | |
if so many people think the USA has such a rotten lousy administration and government, why are the immigration numbers continuing to escalate?
Does it ever occur to you that people around the globe see our faults and they still find that even with those faults that the USA is a far far better place to live than MOST OTHER COUNTRIES available for them to immigrate to!!!!!
So get off it Harry - if you hate Bush and the US congress so much come be a citizen and VOTE!
http://www.perrycomer.com
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Harry Simenon
Unity Member
Post Number:
1774
Registered: 10-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 10:47 am: | |
Immigration numbers of Mexicans I take it?
But I would rather stay here in Europe Perry, if you don't mind...
Perhaps I would not mind hopping over for a day to vote though, but then I would like to get right back home. |
Pacwriter
Unity Member
Post Number:
3141
Registered: 04-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 11:09 am: | |
take a look at the numbers of people in Europe, Africa and the Orient who are on the waiting list to get into the country.
It's not just Mexico -- Orientals and Africans are crashing the borders in record numbers illegally! Even in the wheel-wheels of jets!!
Harry - stop whining about the bad old Americans - we've always been bad and we've always robbed, raped an pillaged the nations of the world including Norway, Denmark and The Netherlands. I'm sure the foreign aid efforts over the years have not paid back near enough. Yep, we are so bad I'm ashamed to be anything but American.
I"m for shutting off all foreign aid and especially to the UN where 85% of the money comes from the USA.
I'D RATHER DIE THAN SUBMIT TO COMMUNISM, SOCIALISM OR EUROPEAN NATIONALISM
http://www.perrycomer.com
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Harry Simenon
Unity Member
Post Number:
1775
Registered: 10-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 11:18 am: | |
Perry, do you believe it is not true what most people think of your government?
Or do you think it is true but that your government did the right thing? |
Claudia Turner VanLydegraf
Mindsight Moderator
Post Number:
3202
Registered: 06-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 01:04 pm: | |
Frank, Did anyone object to Hillary when she poached another person's whole book and got it published under her name and didn't even credit the original writer? Talk about plagiarism and stupidity.......
The fact that no one came forward to balk at what I put out there on that post just shows that maybe no one cared that much about it to fend it off. Who really cares??? You -- are you the watchdog of the site to make sure that every word is factual and given to the exact right person who wrote it in the first place, boy, you must have a lot of time on your hands....
Claudia
MINDSIGHT MODERATOR
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Pacwriter
Unity Member
Post Number:
3142
Registered: 04-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 01:05 pm: | |
Do you believe the world press is Anti-American?
The United States has stood the test of fire - getting shot at - over and over again. Anytime there is a "problem" in the world the governments of the world rise up in hue and cry 'WHY DOESN'T THE UNTIED STATES DO SOMETHING?' You know this to be a fact. Yes, we do step in and yes we get shot at and then we get the blame because it wasn't SOLVED to suit some other nation.
You can't have it both ways - you can't say "come and spend your money and die for us" and then say "oh, you are so terrible and your government so corrupt you should keep your noses and butts at home".
So, I ask you - what do you want? To leave world problems to Europe to solve?
We will be glad for you to make that choice!
http://www.perrycomer.com
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Claudia Turner VanLydegraf
Mindsight Moderator
Post Number:
3203
Registered: 06-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 01:22 pm: | |
Why is it that when someone slams Michael Moore, the thread gets closed and I am publicly ridiculed but when both Frank and Harry accuse the President of the United States of horrible things, they're allowed to do it with impunity?
Frank,
IF an AGENT or PUBLISHER is that stupid to base the sale or acceptance of a book by me on their impression of things I write to or about then they are the loser in the game, not ME..... Don't you get it, I don't care about what anyone thinks, IF I KNOW IN MY HEART THAT I AM DOING WHAT MY CONSCIENCE AND MIND TELL ME IS RIGHT, then that is what I have to do to stay true to myself. IF someone else's plebeian or subordinate bases their judgment of me on something other than the truth, then heaven help them for they are the one being bamboozled by whatever media they are looking at. The truth will always show through, and I might as well state it upfront before they get stupid notions that I might be swayed their way for any profit or manipulation purposes that they might want to purport, give me away. I.E., IF Hillary would just come clean about her motives for running for President, she might have more voters in her corner and IF Obama would come clean about his reasons for wanting CHANGE, many voters would run the opposite way and hide for cover to keep from getting exposed to whatever virus is implementing his head and mind while he is blatantly saying that he loves this country and all it stands for when he really wants to change all it stands for to make it become something else entirely.
Besides, I am not looking for any JOBS or college scholarships or any votes for public office, I am well past that part of my life where I have to worry about those silly enough to ever worry about what I think, and I really (as I stated above) don't give a damn. IF someone wants to look me up on the net and find out what I think or feel, IT IS ALL OUT THERE and SO WHAT...... IF you don't like it, who gives a fig? I certainly don't. IF you or anyone else doesn't or does want to know about me, do or don't look me up, I really don't care. Better yet, IF someone really wants to know about me, all they have to do is to pick up the phone and call me. I will tell them exactly what I have to say on any subject or issue, and I don't care whether or not they like what I have to say. I am my own person.
AND YES, HARRY..... I still do and will always support the CURRENT PRESIDENT and his Administration with everything I know about him and whatever failed things he put forth or didn't put forth. He is still the best one out there and took on a lot to do the job, and has had more blame put on him than any other administration or presidency in History by others in the world who blame him for everything including hurricanes and tidal waves than any other president has ever had to put up with. He has seen the best way to handle things in bad times and has had to put up with every situation that can possibly come forth to beat him down and I believe he has handled most of them with the best of intentions, if not always the best outcomes. To me, he is worthy of being held in high esteem and will always have my regard. Go suck an egg, Harry. You just don't know fully what goes on in America and because of that, you can't understand what makes Americans tick. Bush is and has been doing a better job than many would ever be able to do in the same conditions or circumstances.
As for you Frank, I can't figure you, except that you are a gov taker and an employee (by virtue of your chosen profession and environment) of those who vote for entitlements all the way, and that, to me, makes you a pathetic sycophant.
Claudia
MINDSIGHT MODERATOR
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Harry Simenon
Unity Member
Post Number:
1776
Registered: 10-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 01:49 pm: | |
I don't think the world press is anti-american Perry. Much of the press just about anywhere stinks, and a few are reasonable.
Edit: (nearly forgot the rest of your questions)
You say that the USA is good to pay money and die for other nations, and then are blamed for doing so.
But the nations who call your help are not the same as those who blame you.
I indeed think that US forces have no business in Europe and that Europe should fend for itself. But it is the US that does not like this.
Europe is building up its own defense as carefully as possible not too piss off the US. Our own GPS Galileo is one example of this.
Besides that I think the US needs the money much more than most other nations if you check out your own CIA website
(you need to scroll down a bit)
And like I said before many times: No one nation should police the world, not the US, and not Europe. It will be corrupt and abusive in no-time. An organization like the UN is difficult enough.
But you didn't answer my questions Perry:
Do you believe it is not true what most people think of your government?
Or do you think it is true but that your government did the right thing? |
Harry Simenon
Unity Member
Post Number:
1777
Registered: 10-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 01:59 pm: | |
Claudia,
Very few people blame Bush for hurricanes and tidal waves, but quite a few think that he failed in handling the aftermath of Katrina.
What I would like to know is the same I asked Perry:
Do you believe it is not true what most people think of your government?
Or do you think it is true but that your government still did the right thing? |
Claudia Turner VanLydegraf
Mindsight Moderator
Post Number:
3204
Registered: 06-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 02:21 pm: | |
Harry,
I DON'T CARE WHAT THE GENERAL POPULATION THINKS OF PRESIDENT BUSH. I stand by everything he has done and the ways he has handled things. Katrina was not of his doing, contrary to popular opinion and IF you understood the way things are split in this country concerning states rights and county rights and local government rights, you would not even question anything about how Bush handled it at all. The biggest debacle came from the Governor of Louisana and the Mayor of New Orleans. They didn't get the need for help out there in time to have Bush do anything that would help them. The Mayor neglected his own people and left hundreds of busses sitting in a parking lot that could have been used for transporting people who had no other ways out and the Governor turned down Bush's offer of help when the hurricane first came on shore and told him that it wasn't needed.
As far as what Bush has done overseas, YES I THINK IT WAS THE RIGHT RESPONSE and I would do it over again, only I would stomp down harder on Hussein and faster and I would have stepped it up faster than our congress allowed it to be done. IF Clinton hadn't thrown away our Military during his years in office, we would have had the power to go in and do it right the very first time and be done with it. It is really funny, the world and the Democrats/Liberals want us to come/go in and take care of the monsters that ruin the people and their countries and then they hate us for doing it. No one can win in that sort of environment.
IF I would have been at the helm the day New York and 9-11 happened, I would have gotten our military mobilized the very next week and gone in and bombed the shit out of Afganistan to find and gotten BinLaden and then the next step would have been Iraq. I would not have waited or pondered or thought about the crap that all the crybaby Libs/Democrats wanted and would have done what it took to get the job done.
How does that make you feel Harry. I am a good old RedNeck American and that is what I would have done.
Claudia
MINDSIGHT MODERATOR
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Pacwriter
Unity Member
Post Number:
3143
Registered: 04-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 02:37 pm: | |
The question
Do you believe it is not true what most people think of your government?
Harry do you believe everything in the media?
Do you believe what the North Koreans have to say about the Japanese or the Chinese?
Do you believe all that the USSR has to say about Iran?
Do you believe the general tales in England about the coverup of Diana's death?
I can go on and on --
Believe what about who Harry?
I live in the greatest nation the world has ever known and that nation continues to try to make the WHOLE world a better place. This is what I believe and it has nothing to do with politics.
http://www.perrycomer.com
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Claudia Turner VanLydegraf
Mindsight Moderator
Post Number:
3205
Registered: 06-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 02:46 pm: | |
Oh, and about the hurricane, the Army Corps of Engineers who were supposed to reinforce the Levy's in Louisana, were put off by Blanco and that stupid Mayor and the monies were pocketed by the corruption and graft that they both fostered in that state and Parish. But you never hear about all ofo that in teh world press, and even if you do, you all just put it off as something someone stupid has said, but no one tracks. But that is the way things happened down there in Lousiana. And I am with PAC in his response to you, Harry about do we believe the things, I don't believe or disbelieve what the press in any country or our own nation says for they are all biased by their own personal opinions. My thoughts on press and media is you take half of what is written cut that in half and then throw out a half of that and then you have the truth of the matter. Most stories are based on a truth somewhere, but by the time the press gets to it, it is so muddled in mire that no one knows anymore where the truth went.
Claudia
MINDSIGHT MODERATOR
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Frank Mazur
Wandering Member
Post Number:
274
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 03:00 pm: | |
Claudia, as a Mindsight Moderator, try moderating yourself. Do you really think I'm about to read your 10,000 words of rant, diatribe, and general all-around bullshit? I read it once a few years ago, and I'm quite sure nothing's changed.
And Harry, speaking for myself, not once have I ever thought that your statements and questions suggest that you hate America. Mostly what I see applied to you by some others is nothing less than what Bush-Cheney were forever putting out: "If you're not with us, you're against us." Fortunately, that didn't fly with a great many of us. And it won't fly here either, no matter how hard some try.
3-dollar gas. Writers' strike. Read a great book by F. E. Mazur.
SPINE
THE BUCKSELLER
"A BIGGER CASE" |
Gloria Marlow
Unity Member
Post Number:
2069
Registered: 04-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 03:10 pm: | |
I do think that if I were a publisher/agent, I would look at website posts by people I was considering. I wouldn't look to see what political side they were on, nor would I base my decision on their opinions on such things. I would look at their posts to learn their personalities. A publisher/agent has to mesh with the writer in a way and they need to know if they are looking at someone with at least a modicum of professionalism or if they are all emotion, etc. I know that it is hard to get the real feel for a person on the internet, because it is easier for people to create a persona that isn't really their own. Still, I think most steps of publication at every publishing company, agency, etc. are now handled online. I would need to know if this writer is one that I could expect to be able to work with, criticize, praise, etc. without receiving an over-the-top response, be it too ugly, too effusive, too anything.
As always has been the case, religion and politics are two of the surest ways to get a reaction out of someone.
I get emails of stuff Leno, Carlin, Williams, etc. say and though I may agree with much of it, I am usually very leary of believing it is credited to the correct person. I assume the idea of saying "so and so" said it was that people see celebrities endorse one side or the other and truly believe that this affects other people's voting choices. So, they add someone's name to something they agree with and pass it on ... I KNOW you didn't do this, Claudia. I received the same email from someone else. My opinion is that if you vote or even think based on a celebrity's opinion, you should refrain from voting or thinking. I have changed my opinion of actors based on their need to shout their political beliefs from the rooftops..and if I'm honest, the opinions they shouted from the rooftops do figure in with my liking them or not.
I can see where Frank is coming from, though. I don't think he started this discussion as an attack on Claudia or even the politics of her post (I know you'll correct me if I'm wrong, Frank). I think he truly started this post as a topic a discussion of our responsibilities as writers, to verify facts (one of the first rules of journalism, I belive) and to present a professional person to anyone who might be considering us for publication, etc. I wouldn't like to google my name and have some rhetoric I don't agree with pop up and be attributed to me. Believe me, people do google us, every time someone we meet, work with, etc. finds out we write, they google to see our books, etc. So,now I do question before I post, What do I want just anyone to know about me? Not just friends or relatives, but the everyday "psycho joe" who types in whatever google search brings my name up. I am not ashamed of my beliefs, either political or religious, but I decided a while back that I didn't want to argue them in public anymore. Anyone who wants to email me and ask me my opinion may get it, but I won't give it here. I don't think one of the heated arguments we've had here has ever changed anyone's mind about politics or religion, but I would hate to think they changed someone's mind about whether to publish us or read our books or whatever.
What we have to realize is that we have put our names "out there" for examination by whoever wants to examine us. We aren't famous yet, but if we get that way, do we really want what we said here to haunt us for the rest of our lives? I don't want my books to be read based on my political opinions, nor do I want them not read based on my political opinions. My books don't contain those opinions and I don't want the story I write, and my possibly questionable talent to be lost in the idiocy that can overtake me in the heat of battle.
Gloria
www.geocities.com/gloriadmarlow
http://youtube.com/user/gloriamarlow
Flowers for Megan**Shades of Silence**The Butterfly Game
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Claudia Turner VanLydegraf
Mindsight Moderator
Post Number:
3206
Registered: 06-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 03:26 pm: | |
actually Frank, MY rant was in total of all three entries above ONLY 1,263 words and 5,229 characters without spaces. get a life old man.......
Claudia
MINDSIGHT MODERATOR
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Frank Mazur
Wandering Member
Post Number:
275
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 03:59 pm: | |
Thanks, Gloria. You're right on.
And Claudia, you actually took the time to discover how many words are in your posts and then advised me to "get a life"?... Hmmm. Very interesting. (But funny. Let's both crack a smile.)
3-dollar gas. Writers' strike. Read a great book by F. E. Mazur.
SPINE
THE BUCKSELLER
"A BIGGER CASE" |
Claudia Turner VanLydegraf
Mindsight Moderator
Post Number:
3207
Registered: 06-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 04:59 pm: | |
it took all of two seconds to find out how many words were there Frank...... so I didn't really take the time to find out, actually when I write something, I generally write it in Word and then cut and paste it to the post site. Mostly I do it so that there are not many errors, but sometimes I add to the post after I insert it into Mindsight or any other area and then there are some errors cause my fingers type faster than my mind processes some times. So, that makes it really easy to find out the word count.
SMILE ~~ SMILE ;)
Claudia
MINDSIGHT MODERATOR
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Bill Nelson
Unity Member
Post Number:
2896
Registered: 10-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2008 - 09:17 am: | |
So perhaps it might be good to think about what you write before you post it.
An excellent suggestion for all (including you), Harry. |
Harry Simenon
Unity Member
Post Number:
1778
Registered: 10-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2008 - 09:24 am: | |
Claudia:
“As far as what Bush has done overseas, YES I THINK IT WAS THE RIGHT RESPONSE.”
Well, that pretty much answers my question. Thank you.
“How does that make you feel Harry. I am a good old RedNeck American and that is what I would have done.”
Rather sad, actually. It is difficult for me to understand you. I would love to discuss the matter more. If you are willing to discus it too you can always mail me.
Perry,
May I gather from your answer that you do not believe that your government is into things like torture, lies, fabricated false evidence, illegal invasions, and caused the death of over a million people etc? |
Harry Simenon
Unity Member
Post Number:
1779
Registered: 10-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2008 - 09:36 am: | |
Frank
“And Harry, speaking for myself, not once have I ever thought that your statements and questions suggest that you hate America.”
You are definitely right Frank.
I feel that I need to distance myself from some of the opinions uttered at this forum, which causes me to express my opinion. At this forum I experience it as an handicap to be European as every criticism directed at the US government is taken as a general anti-US stance by some. I can understand that to some degree, but on the other hand regular Mindsighters should know better by now.
I also visit Dutch writers forums and sometimes we have heated discussions too, but at least they can’t accuse me of being anti-European (some probably would if I would be American.)
Also: I feel that writers should develop themselves in many ways as this fuels their work. That is also one reason to keep coming back to a for me sometimes hostile environment. Discussions with people who agree with me are not very fruitful. At least now I can learn more about what drives people who do not think like me. I could do without the insults, accusations and agitation, but I realize it comes with the territory.
In fact I do have sympathy for Americans themselves as the culture and way of life in Europe and the US is very similar (but indeed not the same) compared to the rest of the world.
I watch how slowly Europe unites to form one block and this makes me wonder what this might mean for the future. In that light the US is very interesting to me.
Could EU politics develop to become similar to the US?
For example: right now it is difficult (but not impossible) for a big corporation to influence the media and politics effectively in Europe as it is made up of lots of nations, fractions and political parties. That seems to be much easier in the US. We should learn from that (and try to avoid that.)
So it is not in anyway that I believe that Europeans are of a moral higher standing or something like that, but simply that the way Europe is organized and the relatively small army they have that it makes it difficult to what the US does.
And even if we compare the lifestyle of Europe and the US to the rest of the world, that does not differ that much from people all over the world. We all have much more in common than we differ. I traveled the world for almost ten years and this was a very valuable lesson to me.
Perhaps some do not have those wide-screen flat TV’s and SUVs we have in the West, but they also love their children and want to live their lives in peace. Nobody wants to lose their children in a stupid war fought to fill the pockets of criminals who do not need to fight themselves and don’t care about the suffering they cause.
The people of the world let themselves be ruled by crooks and criminals time after time. The people we are made to hate, fight and despise are people like ourselves, not the monsters our leaders try to portray them to be.
But I assume that you think along similar lines. |
Stephen Lodge
Wisdom Member
Post Number:
635
Registered: 06-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2008 - 10:21 am: | |
"As far as what Bush has done overseas, YES I THINK IT WAS THE RIGHT RESPONSE"
Without resorting to main-stream media lies - what exactly has Bush done overseas to make you type in all CAPS, Harry?
http://www.stephenlodge.com
Novels by Stephen Lodge:
"Charley Sunday's Texas Outfit!"
"Nickel-Plated Dream"
"Shadows of Eagles"
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Harry Simenon
Unity Member
Post Number:
1780
Registered: 10-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2008 - 10:54 am: | |
I quoted Claudia, so you would have to ask her Stephen. |
Stephen Lodge
Wisdom Member
Post Number:
636
Registered: 06-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2008 - 05:01 pm: | |
And Claudia wrote: "As far as what Bush has done overseas, YES I THINK IT WAS THE RIGHT RESPONSE and I would do it over again, only I would stomp down harder on Hussein and faster and I would have stepped it up faster than our congress allowed it to be done. IF Clinton hadn't thrown away our Military during his years in office, we would have had the power to go in and do it right the very first time and be done with it. It is really funny, the world and the Democrats/Liberals want us to come/go in and take care of the monsters that ruin the people and their countries and then they hate us for doing it. No one can win in that sort of environment."
Sometimes I scan the posts and don't always see the quote marks on some of them, Harry. Please forgive me.
And Claudia, after having read your post above, you should have typed the entire post in CAPS - SHOUTING the TRUTH to the world.
http://www.stephenlodge.com
Novels by Stephen Lodge:
"Charley Sunday's Texas Outfit!"
"Nickel-Plated Dream"
"Shadows of Eagles"
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Joyce Scarbrough
Unity Member
Post Number:
1232
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2008 - 09:30 am: | |
What Gloria said.
(Inky Sisters Forever!)
~Joyce Sterling Scarbrough
True Blue Forever
ISBN 0-9722385-9-X
Different Roads
ISBN 0-9722385-3-0
Authors Ink Books
http://www.authorsinkbooks.com
Read the first chapters: http://www.authorsden.com/joycelscarbrough1
Waste time on Joyce's Blog: http://joycescarbrough.blogspot.com
Watch the trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kztz5e3XZeo |
Harry Simenon
Unity Member
Post Number:
1782
Registered: 10-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2008 - 09:46 am: | |
Stephen:
“Sometimes I scan the posts and don't always see the quote marks on some of them, Harry. Please forgive me.”
I’m pleasantly surprised that you even scan my posts Stephen; I often assumed you didn’t read them at all and just responded automatically when spotting one of my posts. So I hereby forgive you. ; )
“And Claudia, after having read your post above, you should have typed the entire post in CAPS - SHOUTING the TRUTH to the world.”
Shouting does not make it True.
Shouting false statements loud enough and often enough does make many people believe it though, especially when they don’t hear anything else or when they lock themselves for anything else. And in my opinion this administration excels at shouting false statements. Again and again. |
Pacwriter
Unity Member
Post Number:
3144
Registered: 04-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2008 - 10:39 am: | |
Harry - I'm asking you to please drop this conversation. It serves no good purpose to make friends angry with you. We do not now or will ever bend to your discussion of our country and it's political leaders. You would do better to find a political forum where you can find agreement. Maybe someone in the EU has a place for you.
Please, move on to another topic.
http://www.perrycomer.com
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Harry Simenon
Unity Member
Post Number:
1783
Registered: 10-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2008 - 10:52 am: | |
If we ALL drop the topic I will too.
If you check you will find that recently no political thread has been started by me, so I'm simply responding just like anybody else.
And when somebody starts another thread I will respond again as I see no reason to shut up just because you do not like my opinion Perry. |
Claudia Turner VanLydegraf
Mindsight Moderator
Post Number:
3210
Registered: 06-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2008 - 12:17 pm: | |
Perry, I am going to add just one thing to this post and then I will be done with it. IF Harry sees fit that he has to respond to it, then that is his right and desire and you or whomever can deal with the outcome any way you see fit.
Frank,
This is going to be a long one, 1,267 words and 5,425 spaces, so you can just pass it by, should you not like to read my "rants"....
Harry,
I spoke with true and total conviction and know that what I stated was the truth about hurricane Katrina. I was here and I saw and heard everything that happened during and immediately following that disaster and I KNOW how our government entities work and what their restrictions and limitations are because I have studied it and have been personally involved in just such things as having been a quasi-governmental representative in my community, on the local citizens level of our political system. I have been an arm representative for Washoe County for several years and have taken part in the debates and the problems on all levels up to the Public Utilities area and law enforcement issues. Mayor Nagin and Governor Blanco had to put the right requests in motion before President Bush had any right to act on any situation during Katrina. They didn't and they pushed off his solicitations and questions about sending in help, so the State of Louisiana paid the price for their complicity. Long before Katrina, I worked on a very similar education and relief strategy team for this area through the government sponsorship of the Washoe Fire Dept and Police Dept, and had to learn the keys to follow and how to get the help from the Federal Arms of government entities. Such entities were recently put into play in a small town called Fernley, NV when 400+ homes were flooded when a canal wall broke right after Christmas, and then more recently when the small town of Wells, NV was hit by a 6.2 earthquake and a good part of the old downtown area was destroyed. I didn't work on any of those situations because I am a good distance from them, but I took the training to handle those situations before that when I built the Cable TV Company that I used to own, and the reason I had to take the training then was because of the communications issues that a huge disaster would need to have in place.
On everything else I wrote, I believe and thoroughly stand by it, because it is fact and truth coming from my brain, heart, beliefs that I hold dear and will not shake just because someone tells me that they "think" they know more about what I am talking about and what is in my mind, heart and soul. Just because you read and soak up all the bad press and media about someone, does NOT make it fact or truth, as much as you think it surely does. You don't live here and therefore you can only glimpse from the walls what is really happening in places that you only want to be part of, it is sort of like a fly on the wall, you are only in a small part privy to the total of what is/has happened. You were not there and you cannot be a totally enveloped individual in any situation until you are a past of it. It seems to me that you are trying to live vicariously the American life through being part of this forum and thinking that you know what is going on in American minds about something that you can only speculate on, at most. As Frank and a few others have stated, there are many who think they know the right ways to handle all options and take care of every situation that happens, but in reality, that is and cannot be further from the truth in this country. Partly because of the sheer size of this place, and the diversity of location types and peoples who live here, there is not just ONE answer to anything. There are differences in our wills, our minds and our necessities because of location and distance. That is why we have a two and sometimes three party system, so as to accommodate everyone who wants to be involved in the course of the governmental ways. There are many different needs and desires also, and again, that is why we have two or three parties, so that everyone has a right to voice those needs. Some see liberalism/democratic politics as the way to go forward and envelope everyone in an all good system for their own benefit and the "good" that will come to all who are part of it, and some of us DON'T see that as a "good" system. Some of us are bent towards the original reasons that White/mainly English people came to this area and want to keep those principals in place so that men/women/and all others remain free to chart their own course in their own lives without the yoke of higher taxation and laws to inhibit our abilities and thinking. That is the essence of Freedom, and that is the one thing many in the rest of the world will never understand because those many always have someone else making the rules that they play by. Their voice is not really listened to in any formal way, other than through a court or tribunal or parliamentary system, which is totally different than what our system is. In some areas and countries, it comes close, but it is NOT the same, and no matter how hard you all try, you still have an in-place system that discounts your voice in the final hour, based on the final needs of your monarchy or government. That is what those many of us who are on the Republican or Conservative side of things, are trying so hard to keep from happening here. We like to have a voice, not just to whine but also to make things more honest in the end for all of those who live here, and vicariously, in other parts of the world, because they can see it works here, and could work there for them. YES, we have our inside wars and often distracting problems, but the system as a whole, works.
Please, remember what I said in one of the post above about believing half of half of half of anything that is written, for there is always a bias inside the writer and the truth gets watered down so much because of that bias. The actual truth is much more distant than the sun and harder to grasp. But what I have just told you is as close to the truth as I can write, for I believe it to be true in my heart.
And again, I back Bush totally and firmly believe that in the end, he will be honored for the good man he is and who tried to do right by this country, all the while having been given just about every obstacle that could have happened and far more than any other presidents other than Kennedy or F. D. Roosevelt. And they didn't have the natural disasters that Bush has had to cope with at the same time, nor did they have a direct attack and blow-up on our soil. Hawaii was only a province or territory state, not yet an actual State in our Union at the time of Pearl Harbor.
Claudia
MINDSIGHT MODERATOR
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Stephen Lodge
Wisdom Member
Post Number:
637
Registered: 06-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2008 - 05:29 pm: | |
Amen!
http://www.stephenlodge.com
Novels by Stephen Lodge:
"Charley Sunday's Texas Outfit!"
"Nickel-Plated Dream"
"Shadows of Eagles"
|
Harry Simenon
Unity Member
Post Number:
1784
Registered: 10-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, February 29, 2008 - 12:02 pm: | |
Claudia,
First of all: thanks for letting me post.
I don’t have any doubts that you believe that you speak the truth. But I have some trouble regarding your arguments that you have better access to the truth than I have.
Although I must say that unlike you I am never able to see and hear everything there is to see and hear. Often I do need to collect some facts and scrap some nonsense afterwards and puzzle it together.
But let’s take Katrina for example:
I take it that you didn’t get your information regarding the emergency plans from Bush and Blanco personally? So in this case the physical distance between the disaster is irrelevant. Neither of us were an eyewitness to the events that took place higher up in the chain of command.
Bush DID receive a call for help from Blanco, and initially it was said that this call for help did not include all areas and that this had caused the problems. But Blanco could prove later on that she DID ask for help in the correct way.
Now I don’t know if Clinton would have done better though; a Dutch team of engineers warned your government years before Katrina, but were ignored.
After the disaster Cuba and Venezuela offered about a million in cash, mobile hospitals, lots of heating oil, food and more, but the US government refused this aid. The aid of several other nations like France were refused at first but accepted later.
In this case pride got in the way of aid for the citizens of New-Orleans: the US could use any help it could get with such a disaster like any other nation could in such case.
But Katrina is indeed not the business of foreigners, although it sheds some light on this administration. It’s in the same category as the declining dollar, increasing debt and illegal spying on its own citizens.
As a foreigner a few things are difficult to understand. The main people of your current government seems to exist out of folks who have or had worked in the energy sector or war related industry. Also it seems a bit odd that a father and son both could become president in a democratic system with so many potential presidents. That resembles a monarchy more than we have, where monarchs do NOT have power but act more as some kind of ambassadors.
Bush junior never managed to run his companies successfully, but he can run a nation? The Osamas were once close friends of the Bushes but are now enemies?
All this seems to defy logic to begin with, but OK, odd things can happen.
But now we get to the problems I have with your government in a way closer to my home.
When there were rumors of secret CIA flights, the ‘extraordinary renditions,’ or torture flights, my government asked your government if this was true. Your government denied this firmly and official. Later it turned out that all this was true: the USA secretly arrested people, got them on a special flight and shipped them off to some secret prison without even letting the allied nations involved know what was going on and even lied about it.
This information has nothing to do with biased news or anything, these are facts. Perhaps I could understand lying to an enemy but you simply do not lie to an ally. Or are we not considered an US ally (if you are not with us you are against us)?
Which takes me to the Iraq topic again we talked about many times:
Plans to invade Iraq from before 9/11, Downing street memo shows ‘spin’ activities, false links with 9/11, fabricated evidence (Niger), Illegal invasion NOT supported by most nations, oil deals, no WMDs, torture, injustice, over a million deaths, over a million displaced, civil war, contractor scandals, misconduct, etc.
Removing Saddam for being a monster makes no sense as the world harbors much worse dictators that could do whatever they wanted. And the result is worse than Saddam has ever caused.
So why are you fighting over there? I sure hope it is worth all of those dead people and destroyed homes and families and blowback for years to come. Or do you think all of those dead were terrorists?
There are many more topics but this post is already way too long.
I don’t expect you to agree with me like you probably do not agree with anything I have said. But perhaps you might understand where I'm coming from. |
Gloria Marlow
Unity Member
Post Number:
2070
Registered: 04-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, February 29, 2008 - 12:50 pm: | |
Harry, Here is a list of U.S. presidents who have been related in some way.
www.who2.com/relatedpresidents.html
There is a surprisingly small list of qualifications to run for President:
You have to be a natural-born citizen of the United States.
You have to be at least 35 years old.
You have to have lived within the U.S. for 14 years.
You can't have been President already for 2 full terms or 6 years if you were President or Acting President for part of someone else's terms...such as a Vice President taking over for a President who died.
You can't have been removed from office by impeachment if you were President before.
That's it. Yet, there aren't many people lining up to run for President.
In theory, most of us on this board could run for President.
I found this site to give a very good overview of the Office of President http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President_of_the_United_States
Interesting facts:
Every President so far has had experience as Congressman, Senator, Cabinet Secretary, Governor, General in the U.S. Army, or as Vice President of the United States. This just shows we do like some experience. George W. Bush did run Texas and must have done a pretty good job...he won re-election with 69% of the vote.
Well over half of them half served in the military, and all but one of those have been officers.
Only four Presidents have ever been elected to serve a second term. I did not realize this and found it quite interesting. Eisenhower, Reagan, Clinton, Nixon, and Bush.
* * * * *
Harry, I would also like to say this one thing. The United States is a group of States, just like Europe is a group of countries. We are all governed under a Federal government, but we also have state governments, which I know you realize. The differences don't stop there, however. Each state really does "think" differently. If you ask Frank, who I believe lives up North somewhere what most of the people around him think of the Presidency and various other issues, you would get a totally different answer than the one you would get from me. I don't know how the approval polls, etc. are handled. I've never been called for one, nor has anyone I know been called for one. So, I can only assume they are handled in other parts of the country than mine. If a poll were held with the people I know within several cities in Florida and Georgia, you would get a totally and completely different approval rating than what you're seeing. Maybe it is the same in Claudia's neck of the woods. I don't know. I can only tell you what I know.
Katrina or any natural disaster never was or will be a political matter, in my opinion.
www.geocities.com/gloriadmarlow
http://youtube.com/user/gloriamarlow
Flowers for Megan**Shades of Silence**The Butterfly Game
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Claudia Turner VanLydegraf
Mindsight Moderator
Post Number:
3211
Registered: 06-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, February 29, 2008 - 01:45 pm: | |
Well stated Gloria, and those two sites are very good. Thank you.
And Harry, as Gloria stated in her reply, where she lives poll results would be much different than those related by what you read or Frank says, and they would be very close to what Gloria thinks in my neck of the woods. We believe in and like Goerge W. Bush very much for the most part, here in Nevada. And I have been asked in a few polls, but the pollsters never like my answers. Pollsters also tend to ignore those opinions that they don't want to hear, just like anyone who searches the internet for information. They mostly only find what they want to find, by virtue of the method of search they use. Pollsters only call on those that they get favorabale results from the time before that they called.
Claudia
MINDSIGHT MODERATOR
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Harry Simenon
Unity Member
Post Number:
1785
Registered: 10-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, February 29, 2008 - 02:03 pm: | |
Thanks for the info Gloria,
I did know that you had to be born in the US, and that in theory everybody could become president, but didn't know the other two.
And I know that you keep the title 'president' for life.
The first US election I can remember reading about in the news paper was Carter. I looked it up and that was in 1977 when I was 15. So I was alive when Kennedy was president but of-course was way too small.
I also realize that Americans in other states 'think' differently. There are of-course differences between European nations but not so much in this political sense. Nations gently sweep between left and right in time, so was France some years ago more left and tilts now more to the right.
England has more or less the same system as you have I believe, and the US adapted that system. On the continent we have multiple political parties to choose from, and according to the number of votes a party receives a number of seats to have their say. So only in the case of very few votes a party might get no seat at all and your voice might be lost. But in that case it would concern a party with very little support.
There are about three or four larger parties among that number of parties.
But what you call 'liberal' would be more 'republican' to you though, somehow the meaning changed.
I still think that natural disasters are something a government needs to deal with: you need to take action to try and prevent the damage and lost lives such natural forces cause in the future. So of-course nobody can't prevent a storm or a flood, but you can do what you can using the recourses you have to soften the impact.
In the fifties we had a Katrina-like disaster. The government started a huge project to prevent such disasters in the future. Since then we have been safe from the sea, which is not a guarantee that it will never happen again though, but the odds shifted greatly in our favor.
In the case of Katrina the government could have prevented quite a bit if they would have take the warnings seriously.
Hans Vrijling, an authority on water management, estimates that it would cost less than 10 billion to build a system that would guard even the lowest areas of New Orleans for a force of 10 times that of Katrina.
Instead Congress decided to allocate about half of that amount to rebuild the preexisting system that has proved to fail. Storm experts estimate another Katrina like storm is likely to occur at least every 70 years.
In my eyes that is a political matter: obviously New Orleans isn't worth the trouble. |
Harry Simenon
Unity Member
Post Number:
1786
Registered: 10-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, February 29, 2008 - 02:15 pm: | |
Well, the feb 20 2008 FOX poll says 32% approve, 59% disapprove. I take it that FOX would not be biased against Bush?
The 'biased' CBS says 30% approved, 64% disapproved. Not that much of a difference I think. |
Claudia Turner VanLydegraf
Mindsight Moderator
Post Number:
3212
Registered: 06-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, February 29, 2008 - 03:09 pm: | |
I have had enough of the back and forth and you Harry, never seeing what the reality is. You just don't get it.
This page is closed as of NOW.
Claudia
MINDSIGHT MODERATOR
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