| Author |
Message |
    
Todd Hunter
Mindsight Moderator
Post Number:
3817
Registered: 02-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2008 - 06:07 pm: |   |
Looks like Fuel Cell vehicles are here. Hopefully the rest of us will be able to get one (hopefully for less than a $600/month, 3 year lease) before gas hits $6/gallon...
Mindsight Moderator
Aston's Blog |
Harry Simenon
Unity Member
Post Number:
1864
Registered: 10-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, May 08, 2008 - 03:40 am: | |
A great alternative indeed.
Still you need energy to produce the hydrogen and oxygen?
But it will be easier to use wind/water/solar power to convert that into electricity and use it to produce hydrogen and oxygen.
It is a nice way to "store" electricity. |
Stephen Lodge
Wisdom Member
Post Number:
655
Registered: 06-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, May 08, 2008 - 04:45 am: | |
"A great alternative indeed."
We have all the oil we need right here in this country. Our government (congress) is preventing us from drilling for it to appease the tree huggers.
http://www.stephenlodge.com
Novels by Stephen Lodge:
"Charley Sunday's Texas Outfit!"
"Nickel-Plated Dream"
"Shadows of Eagles"
|
Frank Mazur
Hsympothai Member
Post Number:
316
Registered: 02-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, May 08, 2008 - 05:09 am: | |
Out of the corner of my eye the other day, I saw an ad for this car on the TV. Good for Honda and the world. We don't need to be digging more holes in the ground and the ocean floor and in the Arctic. Oil has done its job and likely will continue to be needed so parts that run together can do so without a lot of friction. But to haul our asses all over the planet? Forget it. There's better ways and they'll help protect the earth, all the critters that share it with us, and our pocketbooks.
3-dollar gas. Writers' strike. Read a great book by F. E. Mazur.
SPINE
THE BUCKSELLER
"A BIGGER CASE" |
Bill Nelson
Unity Member
Post Number:
2929
Registered: 10-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, May 08, 2008 - 10:05 am: | |
The entire world runs on oil and it's byproducts. The largest industry on the planet is the "Oil Business" and that makes them the largest employer, the largest tax payers, the largest researchers, etc.
We are on the tiger's back with oil. We have the technology now (the hybrids, the hydrogen cars, wind and solar power...) but it will take close to a century to ween the planet off oil use. If we were to convert overnight, the world economy would collapse.
To think that we still don't need to come up with our own oil sources is short sighted. Of course, we need to phase in the alternate sources and work hard on world pollution, but it will have to be slowly.
Meanwhile, to get out of the choke-hold of Arab oil, our own resources should be exploited to the fullest. |
Harry Simenon
Unity Member
Post Number:
1865
Registered: 10-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, May 08, 2008 - 11:43 am: | |
Stephen:
"We have all the oil we need right here in this country. Our government (congress) is preventing us from drilling for it to appease the tree huggers."
If it would pay to extract that oil your government would definitely do so and ignore anything and anybody that might get in their way. Perhaps when oil prices go up even more that they might change their mind. |
Harry Simenon
Unity Member
Post Number:
1866
Registered: 10-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, May 08, 2008 - 11:58 am: | |
In the future it might be possible to use oil wells that were not profitable before, but no matter what we definitely need an alternative. Oil WILL run out. For example: the Saudies are pumping more and more water into their wells to keep the pressure up. If their wells dry up they will be in big trouble.
It is more a matter of infrastructure and will, most of the wind/water/solar technology is not a problem. Nuclear fusion needs more work but would be great.
But I fear that the same folks that control the oil today will control the energy of tomorrow. That's why I still think that wind/water/solar would be better for the time being as it does not need a high level of technology and can also be run by poor nations. |
Bill Nelson
Unity Member
Post Number:
2930
Registered: 10-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, May 08, 2008 - 01:21 pm: | |
"But I fear that the same folks that control the oil today will control the energy of tomorrow. "
Let's see, Harry, that would be the Dutch, Russia, OPEC, OAS, Mexico, Canada, the US, China (emerging). I probably left out a few. Seems pretty worldwide to me. And, if the same ones control the energy of tomorrow, wouldn't that include wind/water/solar?
Wars were fought over black pepper, rubber, diamonds, gold, water, land, oil...Whatever is precious, someone will be trying to control it and conflict will ensue.
It's the way of the world.
P.S. If our government had it's way, we would be drilling in Alaska right now. Our government (I'm sure you mean the Executive branch) is not autonomous, Harry. |
Harry Simenon
Unity Member
Post Number:
1867
Registered: 10-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, May 08, 2008 - 01:27 pm: | |
"Let's see, Harry, that would be the Dutch, Russia, OPEC, OAS, Mexico, Canada, the US, China (emerging). I probably left out a few. Seems pretty worldwide to me."
Those are all rich nations (although not always its people) Bill, not at all world-wide.
"And, if the same ones control the energy of tomorrow, wouldn't that include wind/water/solar?"
I hope not. This kind of technology is more difficult to monopolize as it is not all too complicated.
"Wars were fought over black pepper, rubber, diamonds, gold, water, land, oil...Whatever is precious, someone will be trying to control it and conflict will ensue.
It's the way of the world."
Pretty obvious, but that makes it OK? |
Bill Nelson
Unity Member
Post Number:
2931
Registered: 10-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, May 08, 2008 - 01:39 pm: | |
Of course it doesn't make it ok. However, we must deal in reality, not fantasy.
In a perfect world chocolate would not be fattening and wine would cost half as much.
Totally off the subject. Speaking of dealing with reality and wine, the French are considering using screw tops instead of cork because wine sales are slumping and the emerging biggies are not using corks (even for the premium wines).
The world truly is going to hell. The entire market for corkscrews is going to collapse, just like blacksmiths when autos were mass produced. |
Dennis Collins
Mindsight Moderator
Post Number:
2490
Registered: 06-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, May 08, 2008 - 03:04 pm: | |
We have a wind farm in my neighborhood and it's owned by Detroit Edison.
Dennis Collins
Moderator
www.theunrealmccoy.com
http://theunrealmccoy.blogspot.com |
Harry Simenon
Unity Member
Post Number:
1868
Registered: 10-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, May 08, 2008 - 03:15 pm: | |
"Of course it doesn't make it ok. However, we must deal in reality, not fantasy."
What happened to that good old 'can do' American dream where everything is possible?
But seriously, if we are not even willing to ATTEMPT to stop a bunch of criminals from starting insane wars that cause tremendous suffering, they will surely be able to keep on doing whatever they want. That has nothing to do with dealing with fantasy or reality, but more with some form of fatalism.
A friend of mine is in the wine business. He grows his own grapes, and bottles his own wine. He uses these kind of corks:
http://www.vinova.be/engels/home.htm |
Todd Hunter
Mindsight Moderator
Post Number:
3820
Registered: 02-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, May 08, 2008 - 03:33 pm: | |
I just thought the car was cool...and if the cost of gas goes up too much farther, a $600/month lease won't be that bad in comparison.
Mindsight Moderator
Aston's Website
Aston's Blog |
Harry Simenon
Unity Member
Post Number:
1869
Registered: 10-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, May 08, 2008 - 04:05 pm: | |
I think it sure is a cool car Todd.
Hydrogen is a great way to power cars. But also batteries and capacitors are improving. Perhaps the future will see a combination of these technologies? |
Bill Nelson
Unity Member
Post Number:
2932
Registered: 10-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, May 08, 2008 - 04:14 pm: | |
I saw Jay Leno the other night. He's really bragging about a hydrogen powered vehicle he's driving. Had it a few weeks and says it's perfect for city driving.
There are numerous fueling stations along Hwy 101 in Calif. and more planned.
I like the concept of water power. |
Fred Dungan
Unity Member
Post Number:
2059
Registered: 10-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, May 08, 2008 - 07:55 pm: | |
Let's see, that's hydrogen as in Hindenberg. Osama should have a field day. "Oh the humanity!" I bet that the same huckster who got Congress to waste billions of our dollars on using our food to produce ethanol also came up with hydrogen. You think they are not aware that hydrogen is much more likely to explode than gasoline? Wasn't cold fusion supposed to be the answer to the energy problem?
http://www.fdungan.com/speedo.htm |
Harry Simenon
Unity Member
Post Number:
1870
Registered: 10-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, May 09, 2008 - 02:33 am: | |
Fred, I think it was not so much the hydrogen that caused the Hindenburg disaster, but the flammable paint on the cloth they used, and that not all the panels were electrically connected which caused a spark that ignited the paint.
Indeed you would need to store the hydrogen properly, but there seem to be several solutions these days to solve that problem. I have seen that they took shots at hydrogen tanks and threw it in fires and all that.
But hydrogen is not 'power,' it is an energy carrier, so you would still need some way to generate energy to create hydrogen.
I agree about the ethanol problem: it takes food away from the poor to fill up the hummers of the rich.
Cold fusion would be great, but that is not within reach yet. Also very little money is allocated to that kind of research, wars seem much more important.
I don't know how far you would be able to downscale a fusion reactor? No idea if it would fit an a car. |
Bill Nelson
Unity Member
Post Number:
2933
Registered: 10-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, May 09, 2008 - 08:59 am: | |
Fred,
You are the perpetual cynic. Do you not think a tank of gasoline isn't like driving around with a bomb under your car?
As Harry said, Hydrogen was not the villain in the Hindenburg tragedy.
It can be safely stored and handled, just like gasoline.
The glass is half full you know. |
Joyce Scarbrough
Unity Member
Post Number:
1264
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, May 09, 2008 - 11:48 am: | |
OMG, has the world stopped spinning? Bill just said Harry was right about something! 
Here are some links Norm Chenoweth sent me about using water for fuel:
http://www.waterfuelvehicle.com/
http://www.honest-product-review.com/water4gas/index.php?seed=improve%20gas%20mileage
http://www.waterforgas.tv/?gclid=COWxwpqWmJMCFQ7Vsgod924cAA
http://www.articleanswer.com/Run_Your_Car_With_Water1.htm
http://superfuelengine.vip-offers.info/?ag=Car%20Water&bk=water%20car&m=E&s=gc&gclid=CKTcx8CWmJMCFQPJsgodsUwaAA
~Joyce Sterling Scarbrough
True Blue Forever
ISBN 0-9722385-9-X
Different Roads
ISBN 0-9722385-3-0
Authors Ink Books
http://www.authorsinkbooks.com
Read the first chapters: http://www.authorsden.com/joycelscarbrough1
Waste time on Joyce's Blog: http://joycescarbrough.blogspot.com
Watch the trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kztz5e3XZeo |
Bill Nelson
Unity Member
Post Number:
2934
Registered: 10-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, May 09, 2008 - 01:14 pm: | |
JT,
When Harry states facts, he's a well informed guy. When he offers those socialist bent opinions, that's another matter.
I admire his tenacity in trying to convert the entire American way of life!
Besides, I think he was right once before...let's see...it was back in '06 I think.
I think the water powered autos could be a really good idea, but a bit impractical for uses that require huge amounts of energy. Just thinking about this technology excites me.
It's kind of like last year when your got electricity in Alabama. Remember? Just think, next year you could have indoor plumbing. Wow!
 |
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