| Author |
Message |
    
Harry Simenon
Unity Member
Post Number:
1890
Registered: 10-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, June 15, 2008 - 01:35 pm: |   |
As most of you probably know I used to write in English and targeted the English-speaking market. By coincidence I ended up in the ‘American corner.’
Since I write in my own language and target the local market I noticed quite a few differences that some (one? none?) of you might find interesting.
In the US it seems that all stories MUST have a good ending. Here you can let your hero die a horrible death and let the villain have all the glory without being frowned upon.
You also do not need to tie up all the loose ends. There’s no problem leaving a few questions unanswered.
You can write a sex scene and shove that in a ‘normal’ book over here. In the US such scenes do not belong in an average book. Sex is something that should only be hinted at so that the reader can picture it in his head without the need of reading the ‘filth.’
“And then they closed the door of their bedroom…”
I’m probably a pervert but I prefer those doors open!
I actually did encounter that opinion here too once about a few scenes in my book, while none of the other readers complained and a school teacher thought it was even suitable for 12 year olds.
But I never understood; the most violent scenes you can depict in all its gore without problems, but a more pleasant activity like sex should only be hinted at? Why? I might hint at all events in the book and save lots of paper. We could have one-page books!
I do think sex scenes such fit the story of-course and not be thrown in just to spice up an otherwise lame story, but the same goes for violence and just about any other topic.
In the US an agent is almost unavoidable, while here it is unusual. You can chuck your manuscript directly on top of the publisher’s slush pile. (Swoosh… SMACK)
The query letter should be different. In the US, sizzling marketing letters appear to be in order, teasing the agents/publishers the way you would do with readers.
Here that is different too. They want a clear description of what the book is about and exactly how it ends and why, and who the hell you are.
They don’t want questions like: “Will Margaret find her lost lover? Will her lost lover be able to avoid Margaret any longer after he lost his legs? If you would like to know all this I will gladly send you my outstanding love story about a woman and her dog. My mother really loved it!”
There are also similarities: we also have PA like publishers, but they are forced by law to be more upfront about their operation. Willem’s brother can’t claim he does editing and such, so he admits he doesn’t.
I do notice the increased practice of some smaller publishers forcing you to buy a number of your own books. More and more authors assure me this is a normal practice! A variation on the good old vanity theme…
We unfortunately do not have a preditor & editor site. Perhaps I should set that up, but I rather write instead. I did initiate a small corner at the writer’s site I frequent concerning info about publishers though.
And publishers seem to be increasingly digested by large conglomerates, I’m not sure if that is very positive.
The good news is that book sales go up here instead of down.
Any changes in the US the since 2004? |
Fred Dungan
Unity Member
Post Number:
2069
Registered: 10-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, June 15, 2008 - 10:36 pm: | |
When a character goes to the toilet, it stands to reason that it doesn't belong in print unless something happens in the bathroom that relates to the storyline. It's the same with sex or any other private bodily functions. Our English class was assigned to read Fail Safe, the chief purpose of which was to show how Chapter 7 could be removed without affecting the story. Evidently, it had been added as an afterthought to sell a few more books.
I wish slush piles would stage a comeback in the United States. They engender hope and give the appearance that everyone has an equal chance at being published. So what if it isn't so? When the pile gets too big, the publisher calmly stuffs it into the recycle bin. Appearances are important. That's one reason why I don't have a desire to read about the sexual exploits of great men such as John Kennedy and Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. Yes, they belong in print, but only so far as they affected their public life.
Someday somebody will do a study on how many times famous people wipe after going to the toilet. My guess is that it will be published in Holland.
http://www.fdungan.com/such.htm |
Stephen Lodge
Wisdom Member
Post Number:
660
Registered: 06-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, June 16, 2008 - 06:52 am: | |
Thanks, Fred ~
http://www.stephenlodge.com
Novels by Stephen Lodge:
"Charley Sunday's Texas Outfit!"
"Nickel-Plated Dream"
"Shadows of Eagles"
|
Harry Simenon
Unity Member
Post Number:
1891
Registered: 10-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, June 16, 2008 - 09:07 am: | |
Visiting a toilet is usually a very boring activity, even in Holland. THAT is the reason why you usually don't read about it in books I would say. Sex in itself is usually more exciting that taking a dump (even in Holland.) Which might explain that, like violence, it occurs more in books and stories.
Still I wonder why in the US, violence is usually always OK and sex rarely?
(If you consider a situation where both scenes would add to the story in the same amount of-course.) Do you think it is a cultural thing?
I think you can always remove some scene (whatever the topic) from a story. Often you will hardly notice it or the story even improves and then the scene is probably rightfully scrapped. But more often the story becomes gradually thinner to the point that you have hardly something substantially left. Don't you think? |
Fred Dungan
Unity Member
Post Number:
2070
Registered: 10-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 17, 2008 - 07:50 pm: | |
Too much gratuitous sex or too much gratuitous violence can earn a movie an unfavorable rating (it's pretty much the same for books). A good writer doesn't need (or want) filler.
As of yesterday, same sex marriages are legal in California. Next up the courts will legalize multiple marriages and beastiality. Just because people are permitted to be licentious in private does not mean that we should encourage them to do it in public.
I don't want my grandchildren exposed to indecent, decadent behavior. It is our responsibility to set limits. In this case the courts have gone too far. Come next election there will be some changes on the bench.
http://www.fdungan.com |
Stephen Lodge
Wisdom Member
Post Number:
661
Registered: 06-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 18, 2008 - 05:00 am: | |
Thanks again, Fred ~
http://www.stephenlodge.com
Novels by Stephen Lodge:
"Charley Sunday's Texas Outfit!"
"Nickel-Plated Dream"
"Shadows of Eagles"
|
Harry Simenon
Unity Member
Post Number:
1893
Registered: 10-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 18, 2008 - 11:23 am: | |
I agree about your filler comment Fred, but I do not believe that all sex scenes in books are automatically filler.
As you might have thought I have absolutely no problems with same sex marriages.
In the Netherlands gay marriages are legal since 2001, more than seven years ago. No bestiality or multiple marriages came from that.
(I suddenly have these images in my mind about lonely comboys and their favorite cow… ”Go on! Make my day!”)
The average gay couple behaves very much like the average hetero couple. I don’t think they behave in a more licentious way.
I don’t mind if they show their mutual affection the same way hetero couples do. I can understand that many gay couples like to show their commitment to each-other in an official way.
When my son was seven his male teacher married a man and all kids were invited to the ceremony. As far as I know all the kids showed up at the wedding. None of the kids showed any mental damage, distress or became gay themselves.
Science showed that gay people are born gay. You can’t convert them to heterosexuality the same as you can’t convert heterosexuals to become gay. Only bi-sexual people can choose, and not even they can choose to fall in love with a man or a women. At most bi-sexual can suppress one of their sexual possibilities and appear pure hetero more easy than gays.
Imagine how life must be for gay people by reversing the situation: what if you lived in a gay dominated world where heterosexuality at best might be tolerated; you would need to take care not to show any affection towards your girlfriend in public and you would not be allowed to marry her. Besides that people would think you would be indecent and decadent just for being a hetero, no matter your behavior. How would you feel? |
Harry Simenon
Unity Member
Post Number:
1894
Registered: 10-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 18, 2008 - 11:26 am: | |
Stephen, this page might interest you:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turing_test |
Joyce Scarbrough
Unity Member
Post Number:
1277
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 18, 2008 - 02:36 pm: | |
My books contain sex scenes. They are neither gratuitous, crude, nor indecent and are representative of a normal physical relationship between two people in love. Probably more shocking for some is that the people in my sex scenes are usually married and still enjoy having sex frequently. I don't have a problem at all with my children being exposed to the kind of healthy sexual relationship their parents have enjoyed for 28 years. In fact, I hope it inspires them to strive for the same thing in their own marriages.
~Joyce Sterling Scarbrough
True Blue Forever
ISBN 0-9722385-9-X
Different Roads
ISBN 0-9722385-3-0
Authors Ink Books
http://www.authorsinkbooks.com
Read the first chapters: http://www.authorsden.com/joycelscarbrough1
Waste time on Joyce's Blog: http://joycescarbrough.blogspot.com
Watch the trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kztz5e3XZeo |
Joyce Scarbrough
Unity Member
Post Number:
1278
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 18, 2008 - 02:42 pm: | |
BTW, I also think the complete and utter disregard for the sanctity of marriage that is demonstrated in Hollywood every day by the people who swap partners more often than some people change their underwear is much more of an affront to the institution than same-sex marriages.
~Joyce Sterling Scarbrough
True Blue Forever
ISBN 0-9722385-9-X
Different Roads
ISBN 0-9722385-3-0
Authors Ink Books
http://www.authorsinkbooks.com
Read the first chapters: http://www.authorsden.com/joycelscarbrough1
Waste time on Joyce's Blog: http://joycescarbrough.blogspot.com
Watch the trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kztz5e3XZeo |
Bill Nelson
Unity Member
Post Number:
2953
Registered: 10-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 19, 2008 - 09:44 am: | |
JT,
Please clarify your statement. Does that mean you don't oppose same-sex marriage?
I don't think anyone could argue infidelity is permissible (I don't know about Harry, he seems to be an anything goes kind of guy.)
We know where Harry, Steve and Fred stand on the gay issue.
I am 100% against same-sex marriage and do not want my children to be
exposed to a society that thinks it is okay. I think the California ruling will be reversed by ballot. 70% of Americans still are against it. |
Harry Simenon
Unity Member
Post Number:
1896
Registered: 10-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 19, 2008 - 12:58 pm: | |
Bill:
"(I don't know about Harry, he seems to be an anything goes kind of guy.) "
Pardon me Sir: I AM against a same-sex marriage for myself, that's why I married a woman. |
Bill Nelson
Unity Member
Post Number:
2954
Registered: 10-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 19, 2008 - 01:58 pm: | |
Harry,
Frankly, that surprises me, based on some of the other positions you hold.
Guess you really can't tell a book by its cover. |
Harry Simenon
Unity Member
Post Number:
1897
Registered: 10-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 19, 2008 - 02:25 pm: | |
Have you seen the positions I held? |
Joyce Scarbrough
Unity Member
Post Number:
1280
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 19, 2008 - 02:35 pm: | |
I wasn't talking about infidelity. I'm talking about the people who get married on a whim then get divorced a few months, weeks, even days later. Then they do it all over again the next time they get a wild hair. That's much more insulting to the sanctity of marriage than two people of the same sex who have been in a committed relationship for years wanting to legalize their union.
As for the rightness or wrongness of it, I have relatives who are homosexuals. I know they were born that way, because I've known them all their lives. I still love them, want them to be happy, and refuse to believe they are condemned to Hell because of the way they were born.
As for my children, I'm not any more worried about them being influenced by exposure to same-sex marriages than I worry about them suddenly deciding to contract Down Syndrome or become autistic.
~Joyce Sterling Scarbrough
True Blue Forever
ISBN 0-9722385-9-X
Different Roads
ISBN 0-9722385-3-0
Authors Ink Books
http://www.authorsinkbooks.com
Read the first chapters: http://www.authorsden.com/joycelscarbrough1
Waste time on Joyce's Blog: http://joycescarbrough.blogspot.com
Watch the trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kztz5e3XZeo |
Todd Hunter
Mindsight Moderator
Post Number:
3835
Registered: 02-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 19, 2008 - 06:32 pm: | |
Let's keep to the discussion of publishing, folks...
Mindsight Moderator
Aston's Website
Aston's Blog |
Bill Nelson
Unity Member
Post Number:
2956
Registered: 10-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 20, 2008 - 08:44 am: | |
I'm publishing a book on gay marriage!!!!!! |
Stephen Lodge
Wisdom Member
Post Number:
662
Registered: 06-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, June 21, 2008 - 04:53 am: | |
"I'm publishing a book on gay marriage!!!!!!"
Based on first-hand experience, I assume?
http://www.stephenlodge.com
Novels by Stephen Lodge:
"Charley Sunday's Texas Outfit!"
"Nickel-Plated Dream"
"Shadows of Eagles"
|
Joyce Scarbrough
Unity Member
Post Number:
1282
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, June 21, 2008 - 09:00 pm: | |
>>I'm publishing a book on gay marriage!!!!!!<<
And I'm editing it for him and taking out all the negatives! And all the extraneous exclamation points!
~Joyce Sterling Scarbrough
True Blue Forever
ISBN 0-9722385-9-X
Different Roads
ISBN 0-9722385-3-0
Authors Ink Books
http://www.authorsinkbooks.com
Read the first chapters: http://www.authorsden.com/joycelscarbrough1
Waste time on Joyce's Blog: http://joycescarbrough.blogspot.com
Watch the trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kztz5e3XZeo |
Fred Dungan
Unity Member
Post Number:
2072
Registered: 10-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, June 21, 2008 - 10:10 pm: | |
Is this the fully illustrated edition? Judging from the avatar Bill uses to depict his persona, this non-fiction work is going to be more hilarious than gay. How about this for a title: Any Hole Will Do, the despicable, distasteful memoirs of a "dickey do."
http://www.dunganbooks.com |
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