| Author |
Message |
    
Barbie Perkins Cooper
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 04, 2002 - 08:44 am: |   |
Let's get back to writing!
Most of you know me as the screenwriter and non-fiction writer of this group. I have started a new book, Chattahoochee Child, and I am really having difficulty with Chapter One.
Can any of you enlighten me as to the 'tricks of the trade' used by yourself?
Please...
HELP!
I'm drowning as a fiction writer....Drowning...ever so slowly...drowning...
See, I told you I need some writing tips for fiction! |
Kevin P. Grover
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 04, 2002 - 08:54 am: | |
Barbie,
It really depends on what form of fiction you are into. For example, if you are into what they now are terming as "true fiction" (I got that from Bowker's when their rep told me that was the actual category for mine), then you need look no further than the newspaper and the television news. Take something that's happening...for me and Strike Swiftly it was the hard drives missing from Los Alamos. Take the story, get as many of the facts as you can, then come up with a reason 'why' the event happened. Make it contradictory to the news and such. You could take the Enron collapse, get all of the facts, and then do a story where the V.P. was on the payroll of some middle-eastern country and managed to see to it that Enron fell, thus increasing the need for foreign oil. (I have no idea what Enron did, so this is simply conjecture.)
Other genres...it's hard to say. TTMOM, my current project, was inspired from the last ten minutes of Shawshank Redemption. It's nothing like that movie, but at the same time it fits in with the spirit of it. Already, even tho0ugh I'm only five chapters into it, people have told me that it's my best work yet.
So, basically, the ideas can come from anywhere. Murder mystery? Watch The New Detectives, The Prosecutors, Justice Files, and The Forensic Files on Discovery and TLC. Each week you could have a new idea for a murder mystery that the whole plot is laid out for you...you just need to fill it in with detail.
Feel free to ask if there are any other questions! |
C. E. Winterland
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 04, 2002 - 09:08 am: | |
Barbie,
I think this thread really belongs out in the public area, but I'll leave it to you to OK that for me - if you do, I'll move it.
I write fiction the LONG way. Generally, as Kevin said, something will spark a thought in my head, and my mind will expound on it, usually while I have something else really important to do that requires my full attention  . After thinking about it for a while, if the thought lasts long enough for me to get to my computer desk or my laptop, it has outlived the critic in my mind whose name is "Forgotten".
I then sit down and begin spinning a tale that in some way evolves around, or involves as a core element, that thought that was sparked by that thing I saw or heard.
This is the long way because I let it grow from there like moss between the bare toes of a hippy child... no offense to all you hippies Generally I will stop at some point and take a break for a day or a week or something, then read all of what I wrote (by this time its most likely 50 to 100 pages) and expound on some of the ideas or characters that grew out of that idea, find out where it needs to go, and proceed to take it there. (Sometimes that's the circular file... but I continue to work on it anyhow, cuz I'm stubborn).
This is not helping you one bit is it?
Well when in doubt remember that chapter one opens with action, foreshadows the ending, and introduces your characters and plot.
CEW |
Barbie Perkins Cooper
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 04, 2002 - 09:27 am: | |
C.E.:
Good idea, taking this to the public area. Please do.
I simply wanted to make an attempt to, shall we say, shift our thoughts to something productive! |
Donna Sussums
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 04, 2002 - 09:38 am: | |
Hi Barbie,
I'll give this one a go.
When writing fiction, I visualize the story as if I'm watching a movie. The scenes play out in my mind; every aspect of them. Sometimes I conquer dialogue by speaking out loud, listening for the flow. I'm not a big fan of pages of descriptive passages so I normally set the scene with a few paragraphs but then let my characters take over. I like to have the characters interact with the surroundings, not have two distinct entities.
If I'm having trouble with a particular point--read "doubting my abilities" here--I'll turn it into a hypothetical question with which to torment all those around me. I like the variety of responses, and then I can reassure myself that my character's reaction isn't that far off base.
I also "steal" from people; bits of personalties, quirks, gestures, that type of thing. I'm a skilled listener, a people-watcher. Both are helpful.
You have to loosen your imagination, and trust where it takes you.
I hope this helps a bit. Feel free to e-mail me anytime. You never know, you might want to bounce a hypothetical question off of me.
Donna |
Carla Dalton
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 04, 2002 - 09:52 am: | |
Barbie,
Like Kevin and CE, I will get a little spark of an idea. Sometimes I a sentence will pop into my head and I'll think gee-that would be a good opening line. With my first novel, Once and Again, I started writing the end first. At that time I didn't even have a plan for a book. Then a name popped into my head. Lance McCoy-it just came out of nowhere. Then I started wondering what he would be like. So I went back to the beginning and it grew from there. Of course, by the time I got to the end, I had to change it a little. But the basic premise remained the same.
My second mss, Impetuous Hearts, started out in Charleston. But about 200 pages into it I came to a dead stop. I'm talking MAJOR writer's block. So I put it away for awhile and started something else. Then I went back to it and re-read it. I changed the setting to England and changed the time period. Of course I ended up deleting over half of it, but it all finally came together.
I do a lot of research because I love history. Sometimes I discover something that happened in another time and I'll use that as a backdrop for my story. The hardest thing about doing that is making sure that all of my facts are correct, without spending too much time lecturing the reader and turning the story into a history lesson.
I'm currently working on a contemporary. It's about a forty-something woman who gets involved with a younger man. It isn't moving forward very fast. I don't know if that's because I prefer historicals, of if it's because it's loosely based on my own experience. A wise man I know recently wrote that an author shouldn't write about himself.
Well, I'm starting to ramble and I'm probably not helping you very much either.
Good luck with your new project.
Carla |
Barbie Perkins Cooper
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 04, 2002 - 10:11 am: | |
Carla:
Did you know I live in Charleston? Charleston, SC, that is!
Thanks everyone for your help. It sounds like I am on the right track with my next book; nevertheless, I am so doubtful of my writing abilities, at times.
I hope many will contribute to this category. All of us have tricks of the trade, mine are mostly written with the visual imates of cinematography. Nevertheless, I am moving on. I am free.... I feel like a bird now. If only I could fly! |
Claudia Turner VanLydegraf
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 04, 2002 - 10:55 am: | |
Barbie,
No tricks, not really a writer, I just sat down at the puter one day and it all spilled forth like so much bubblegum from my mouth. But you were talking about fiction writing, and I have never even tried that, so I don't know what I am talking about, anyway.....
I write history articles for the paper and news articles and meetings and such, but have never, I repeat, NEVER, tried fiction - and I am realllllly scaRed of it. But I guess if Notes finally does ever sell OK, then I will have to try a second book, and I don't even know how to begin. Unless I can get away with a follow-up on the story (perhaps about being published, or about other aspects of my life, or about something else that is equally inane) . Suffice to say that I think this is a good topic and I will learn from it..... THANKS.
Claudia |
Barbie Perkins Cooper
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 04, 2002 - 11:29 am: | |
Let's keep this category rolling. We're getting good advice, and we are sharing similar to my writers group.
Thanks for all your comments. |
C. E. Winterland
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 04, 2002 - 01:34 pm: | |
Hmmm tricks of the trade?
Sometimes I stand out on the streetcorner in a short skirt and fishnet stockings and yell out in my highest voice, "Heya, sweetie! You lookin' for a few words about a good time?!" to all the passing cars.
Actually, much of the time, I'm wondering how to STOP the ideas so I can focus on one for a while
CEW |
C. E. Winterland
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 04, 2002 - 01:51 pm: | |
lkjsadflkjsdf |
John Laurence Robinson
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 04, 2002 - 04:44 pm: | |
I've experimented around a bit with this (good thread here, by the bye). In my first novel, an end-of-the-world thing called GRAVITY FADES, I began with a prologue, which in retrospect ended up doing what the first chapter should have done, so that's really what I should have called it. My second book, the Christian private eye thriller SOCK MONKEY BLUES started with a true prologue, using a "bombs away" approach wherein I dumped the reader right in the middle of a running gun battle, then straight to a flashback to the beginning. The second in that series also has a prologue, wherein the villian is introduced (doing the nasty things a villian does), then the first chapter opens with my protagonist talking in his own voice. From there we're off to the races. Did any of that make even a scintilla of sense?? |
Barbie Perkins Cooper
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 04, 2002 - 06:28 pm: | |
C.E.:
I knew you especially would enjoy the category of "Tricks of the Trade!"
All I have to say to you is this -- how'd you get the fish net stockings? I adore them!
Seriously...I am happy to see you are back.
So, C.E. what are your tricks of the trade??? |
Dennis Collins
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 04, 2002 - 06:33 pm: | |
Prologues are said to be a very effective tool and many experts espouse their use. Maybe I'm just a chicken, but I've never been thoroughly convinced that everybody reads them.
I'm a firm believer in a very strong opening sentence, something irresistable to the reader. They aren't going to ever get into the heart of your story if they feel repulsed by page one. It's kinda like "curb appeal" is to the real estate salesperson.
I'm a mystery writer and that particular audience seems to enjoy action so I try to pace the story so that it provides plenty of carefully spaced animated activities.
There are a million theories on what works best and my personal preference is a story with a quick tempo, relatively short chapters, dialogue heavy, and a ration of somewhat dry humor. (Health is merely the slowest possible rate at which one can die)
I think that the writer has to find something that is harmonious with their writing style. You can fake it for a paragraph or two but eighty thousand words is another matter altogether. |
LaurieAnne Cruea
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 04, 2002 - 06:58 pm: | |
Barbie--
You have a great deal of my respect, as I am a failure at non-fiction. It is just too difficult of a topic to breach for myself.
Fiction: I can do fiction blindfolded (and I do sometimes, if my character is blind). My tricks, well, like Donna, I picture a movie playing in my head. Then I take turns putting myself into the position of every lead character, and a few minor ones, so that I can capture the senses from each person POV.
On Dennis's statement on Prologues, there is one basic sort-of 'rule' about prologues: If it can be included in the full body of the story without injuring the tale, do not use a prologue. However, if it is something that gives a flash of (apparently) unrelated background, make it a prologue. At this time, the only one of my tales with a prologue is "Darkness and Dreams" because it involves time travel. I used the prologue to actually introduce the original mystery (the girl-child-priestess born to a priest around 1000 B.C.E.) and opened chapter one with the 21st century.
CE--What the heck are you smokin' that has you on the street corner? And when is your next trip? (I want pictures.) And why aren't you sharing? (LOL)
And like our illustrious host, (take a bow, CE) I try to stop the ideas at times. Most of the time, I scribble a lot of notes in the margins of my notepad that pertain to one of many different tales. I currently have about 20 'starters' on my computer, and another 40 or so in files in the desk drawers. Many of them, I doubt I will ever touch as many of them were 'tests' that high school friends gave me because they thought I plaguerized my work. (hehehehehe, got a few in trouble, too, when they got caught with some of those scenes---oops, rambling)
As for where to start? Find something gripping. Your opening page is the most important page of all. I have found that for me, sensory detail is the best opening for the book. Some choose to use dialogue. It's all about what you are most comfortable with using.
Best wishes, Barbie Doll.
LA |
Dennis Collins
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 04, 2002 - 07:28 pm: | |
HAY BARBIE!!!!!
I just remembered that one of the guys at the conference this weekend, started out as a screenwriter and has become a very successful mystery author. His name is Jay Bonansinga. Know him?
Back to prologues:
My fourth book - "The Treasure of Poverty Island" (I'm just starting my third) will probably have a prologue because my main character will be instrumental in recovering a treasure of gold coins ($8,000,000 worth) that went to the bottom of Lake Michigan during the Civil War (the authenticity of which is still a hotly debated issue)
The scene of the actual sinking of the ship will be a prologue.
I spent months researching this project with the curator of the Dossin Great Lakes Museum and then Robert Stack did a whole hour on it on his "Unsolved Mysteries" show. |
Barbie Perkins Cooper
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 05, 2002 - 06:38 am: | |
Dennis:
Sounds like the conference was terrific, and you schmoozed with the right people. No, I do not know Jay Bonansinga, or of him. Maybe I should look him up just to see what credits he has.
I'm happy that many are participating in this category, or is it a 'thread?' What is a thread, by the way -- related to a field?
Has anyone ever thought of the terminology used for computers, and how graphic the terms could be? Let's see -- you've got threads, software, hardware, and other terms, but I haven't had my coffee yet, so I'll hush.
I hope everyone will continue with the 'threads' of 'tricks of the trade,' because all of you are sharing valuable tips to inspire all of us.
As for me, when I am writing a screenplay, I try to 'hook the audience' immediately. Notice when you go to a movie. Within ten minutes of the film, you are hooked, provided the dialogue, action and characters are moving the story along for you.
Today, I'll be working on the screenplay for Condition of Limbo. Since I am no longer affiliated with PA, perhaps I can get back to writing seriously, with inspiration and desire pushing me along.
What a relief to be free again! At least it was a learning experience...now, I really know the questions to ask, and if I am ever told by a publisher that the terms are 'NOT NEGOTIABLE with our contract,' I will run away.
Remember -- writers -- everything in life is negotiable. Now, let's get back to posting more 'tricks of the trade!'
See you at the Movies...Plays...and One day --- the Oscars! |
Vickie Adkins
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 05, 2002 - 07:27 am: | |
Barbie-
I think the first chapter needs to grab the reader, causing him to want to read more and more about the characters and what happens to them. Introducing a character with a particular problem works well. Hopefully the reader will want to see how the character handles this problem, and eventually solves it. Arousing curiosity --so even if a casual browser or "customer" picks it up and scans the book they HAVE to know more!
Best,
Vickie |
C. E. Winterland
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 05, 2002 - 07:30 am: | |
Barbie,
I think of "threads" as the subtopics on the board. For example, this is the topic "Writers Board" and the thread is "...Tricks of the Trade..."
My fishnet stockings (which I stole from a fisherman when he wasn't looking, for that authentic feel) are also threads, but of a different kind.
Actually though, having read a few screenplays in my crit group (there are a few screenwriters in it) I would think that writing fiction is similar in the way that you want to show the action - only in fiction you are the director. You must show camera angles and beats in your words. The words are the tools, and you are the entire production crew. However, words is a single tool with many implements, so at least you don't have to lug cable, hold lighting, drive the boom, etc...
CEW |
Barbie Perkins Cooper
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 05, 2002 - 08:45 am: | |
C.E.:
Thanks for the clarification. I hope the fisherman does not miss those fishnets too much!
Seriously, what you described about screenplays is exactly correct, with one comment. When writing a screenplay for consideration, a screenwriter writes a 'reading script,' not the production script. Production scripts contain scene numbers, etc. Reading scripts 'read the story,' without much direction, simply because the writer is the writer, not the director. I had to learn that the hard way, and now it works much better.
If any of you are interested in learning screenwriting, an easy 'user friendly' book to get is: The Screenwriters Bible, 3rd Edition, by David Trottier. He has a web site too. |
Gloria Marlow
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 05, 2002 - 11:33 am: | |
I feel so silly giving people advice on writing. But here goes:
I am working on several books right now. However, I have noticed a startling trend of mine is to go "duh" around page 50. Why? Who knows. And usually, I have the last several chapters ready to roll in my head and a few major scenes mapped out, but for some reason when I get to that mid-point my mind goes blank for what seems like long periods of time.
I agree with Donna about the descriptive passages. Description is good. Like a painter, we have to paint a picture. I think it is harder for us sometimes, because we "see" everything like it is, so we use a few words and think the reader can "see" it exactly like we can. Or we describe things so much that the story gets lost wandering around the winding, dark, wet, slimy, twisting, long, rutted, blah, blah, road that leads to the small, ramshackle, wooden, gray, old, green-roofed, dirty, blah, blah, house. But picking out a word or two to describe it and then describing it with some of the others in different passages may be a good idea.
Does that make sense? If it doesn't, just ignore it.
Anyway, it does take so much description and how to use it and everything to make a story real for the reader. I think the biggest compliment anyone has paid me yet, and several people have told me this, is that they cried when they read Flowers for Megan. That was not my intention, although I cried when I had to murder some of the characters. I just never dreamed anyone else would. I'm just amazed that they were that into the story, that they weren't just wondering "who did it?", they actually felt what the characters felt.
So, I guess fiction writing is a little like putting on makeup. You want it to look natural, sometimes even a little noticeable, but never ever like the woman on the Drew Carey Show. And it's a fine, fine line there. A lot easier to cross than people realize.
Okay, I am closing now, because my comparisons are getting a little wacked here.
Barbie, I think you are a lot like me--your own worst critic. Just skip chapter one if it's giving you a fit. Go to Chapter 2. You'll remember what you wanted there when the time comes. They all fit together and sometimes, in fiction writing, the last sentence comes before the first. Then this odd little dialogue will come in and you don't even know where it goes. Just go with what you're writing and pick it apart when you're done. Gosh, if only advice was as easy to use as it is to give.
 Gloria
I |
Donna Sussums
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 05, 2002 - 04:21 pm: | |
Hi Gloria,
You had me laughing with your description of the winding road "blah-blah-blah" and the old building. Thank you. And then I thought, "Wait a minute, that sounds like my place."
It occurred to me today that any storyline I'm writing makes perfect sense to me. It's always a logical chain of events or whatever. But then, I have the inside track on all the characters, on everything that has or will happen in the story. That makes it difficult for me to see my work through the "eyes of a reader." Since I'm not brave enough to throw my work before the critique group (and I envy those of you with that courage) I grab the husband, the kids, or any other unsuspecting soul and say, "Here, read this." and I walk away.
If it makes sense to them, if they can grasp the story from what I've given them, then I'm satisfied.
BTW, I've received some awesome feedback on my book. One woman told me she read it over the weekend (it's over 400 pages) and had to stay up late to finish because she was so close to the end. My readers range in age from 15 to 76, and so far so good. That pleases me; especially knowing that the school kids are not only able to, but are willing to plow through a book of that size.
Now, somebody find me a publisher, please?
Donna |
C. E. Winterland
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 05, 2002 - 05:41 pm: | |
Donna,
Crit groups are extremely useful... and not scary at all as long as you WANT feedback on your work (which it sounds like you do, since you give it to folks to read
My wife used to read my stuff... and she'd tell me about stuff that wasn't so cool, but could never say why...
Then I gave "Awareness" to the woman who ended up being my publicist (for what short time there was) and she took it apart with me in an 8 hour session one night... that was when I realized that I needed a crit group, though it still took me almost 2 years to get into one.
For what it's worth, we got a good, diverse group here at the forum... go ahead, post a few paragraphs at the workshop... what can it hurt?
CEW |
Gloria Marlow
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 06, 2002 - 12:00 pm: | |
Donna,
That is exactly what I was thinking when I posted. Only for some reason, that day, I was rambling. Because I know where the characters are going and what and who they are, I always feel like everything is flowing very logically. For example, in Flowers for Megan, a little girl is kidnapped by someone dressed in a Santa suit. She tells the police she was with Santa. That made sense to me, after all, I saw him in his Santa suit and that was enough for me. But, when I let my mom read the finished manuscript, she asked why the girl thought it was Santa. So, I had to go back and add parts to explain why she thought it was Santa. To me it was obvious, to a reader it wasn't. And once I added the parts that explained it, it was so much better than I had realized it could be.
I had never ever let anyone read anything I wrote with me present in the room. NEVER. And, as far as my books go, no one had ever read a word of one of them, except my husband once when he peeked. He was in a lot of trouble, though. I'm better now, though. My dad took the darn book on vacation with us and read it. I had to force myself to quit wondering what he was thinking about it the whole time. But, I think getting help and ideas from other authors would be really helpful, so I may just throw some out there one day.
Gloria |
laurelj
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, February 07, 2002 - 04:10 am: | |
I always have several books going at once, but try to focus on one at a time. Once the process starts, only total exhaustion interrupts it. Like C.E. said, I can't turn off the thoughts.
I start with the main characters, who are already completely formed in my mind, along with the premise. I get the thoughts and ideas into the word processor, chapter by chapter. Each chance I have to write, I read thru from the beginning adding this, changing that, expanding a description. This process of refining, adding, changing continues until the book gets too long for that to be practical. Once it gets to a certain length, I start a couple chapters ahead of where I'm working and move into the unfinished part. This process gets me back into the mood of the story, gets me back into the characters' heads so I can continue where I left off without faltering.
I never have writer's block. Sometimes I wish to God I would!
laurelj |
poker casino125 (Unregistered Guest)
Work-in-progress guest
Posted From: 216-81-0-10.allstreamits.com
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, March 06, 2006 - 02:52 pm: | |
poker casino poker 71 |
|
Closed: New threads not accepted on this page