| Author |
Message |
    
Gloria Marlow
Wisdom Member
Post Number:
998
Registered: 04-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, June 21, 2004 - 09:26 am: |   |
Okay, so do you ever start reading a book and think that you have no business even thinking you're a writer?
I've been reading "Wild Orchids" by Jude Deveraux this weekend and from page one I was thinking this.
I know I complain about not finding books that can hold my interest lately, but then there are those really talented authors who make me stop and wonder what I'm thinking. These authors and books just show me that nothing counts as much as talent. Nothing we can learn matters if we don't have it.
But how do we know if we have it or not?
Thoughts, please. |
LaurieAnne
Unity Member
Post Number:
1533
Registered: 12-2001
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, June 21, 2004 - 10:55 am: | |
Gloria,
I'm going to negate myself from this topic as possibly being conflict of interest.
But if you even think to quit writing, I'll fly/drive to Florida just for the sole purpose of kicking your butt.
:P
LA
LaurieAnne
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Gloria Marlow
Wisdom Member
Post Number:
999
Registered: 04-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, June 21, 2004 - 11:06 am: | |
That actually wasn't my thought at all. I was just struck by the fact that really gifted writers are few and far between. It's not just creative ideas or the ability to finish a manuscript or the ability to follow "the rules", or the ability to break them...it's a gift, a talent. It has nothing to do with agents, editors, publishers be it that the author has the best or the worst of any of those. It is in the author themselves.
How do we cultivate/nurture such a talent if by chance we have it? And how do we do so without destroying it or smothering it with what we learn about the trade/industry itself?
I would think in every field there are those that are good because they have knowledge and try hard and then there are those who are just "naturals". |
Gloria Marlow
Wisdom Member
Post Number:
1000
Registered: 04-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, June 21, 2004 - 11:10 am: | |
Ooops, I forgot to look sufficiently frightened by your threat. 
There, did that work?  |
Dennis Collins
Mindsight Moderator
Post Number:
936
Registered: 06-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, June 21, 2004 - 12:01 pm: | |
Gloria...
I've given that matter more and more thought since I've become more familiar with editors.
Editors are like the tech inspectors at the Indy race track. They have templates cut out of cardboard and everything has to fit within the profile of those templates or it's simply not allowed. In my opinion, that stifles creativity to a point that totally cripples otherwise brilliant innovators.
So many of the world's greatest athletes are known for breaking the rules of form. I'm reminded of the oddball gait of football hall of fame's Elroy (Crazylegs) Hirsch, the unorthodox sidearm passing technique of legendary Quarterback Bernie Kosar, and the hightop shoes of Johnny Unitas. It seems like so many of the really great ones don't follow the prescribed guidlines.
In mystery writing, Elmore Leonard makes up his own rules and still pulls in seven figure advances.
I guess it's success that really dictates what's acceptable.
I'm not trying to demean editors here because they need some kind of guidelines to keep them competitive in a fiercely competitive business. But the most perceptive editors will recognize the raw talent in spite of the sins commited against the structure. |
LaurieAnne
Unity Member
Post Number:
1534
Registered: 12-2001
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, June 21, 2004 - 02:20 pm: | |
P.S. IMO, Gloria has it.
But then, perhaps I'm biased.
LA
LaurieAnne
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LaurieAnne
Unity Member
Post Number:
1535
Registered: 12-2001
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, June 21, 2004 - 03:10 pm: | |
Now, on topic, I am very critical of what I read. I can either:
1.) sit and read it from cover to cover without giving thought to food, children, email, phones, or anything
2.) Sit and read until I have to do something, and then I am axious to get back to the story
3.) Not think twice about when I'll get back to it, but I DO want to finish it
OR
4.) Close the book after several chapters, unfinished, and not give it a second thought.
Now, those categories, I'm sure, apply to most everyone.
However, those books which fall into categories 1 and 2 are, as you have said, few and far between them. (Of course, the one I am reading now falls into category 2, only because I have reached the point in my life that I really MUST schedule time for sleep. Good going, Mark.)
How do we cultivate/nurture such a talent if by chance we have it? And how do we do so without destroying it or smothering it with what we learn about the trade/industry itself?
To cultivate and nurture the talent, you keep writing. To do so without destroying/smothering it? Quit listening to what other people say. If you have that gift with words and storytelling, don't let someone else tell you that you have to fit within a formula/stereotype/whatever. To try to "fit in", you would destroy your individual voice and that quality which makes others love your writing and remember your name.
LA
LaurieAnne
|
Nancy Marie
Unity Member
Post Number:
1778
Registered: 08-2001
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, June 21, 2004 - 06:06 pm: | |
I recently went through a reading binge. I read at every chance I got, to the detriment of dishes, laudry, real cooked meals, etc. every book I could get my hands on by Linda Howard.
To me she has real talent, and I found myself wondering the same thing as Gloria, i.e. if you learn everything you can about the craft of writing but don't have any real talent...
Anyway, it was an eye-opener.
blessings, Kitty |
mark dirschel
Wandering Member
Post Number:
152
Registered: 01-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, June 21, 2004 - 09:27 pm: | |
i guess i've been equally disgusted by books i felt had no right to be printed as i've been impressed by writers who have shocked me to my core with their brilliance.
yin-yang.
as far as whether or not "we have it" - who knows? just as many readers have the ability to say our books suck as they do to praise them. such is life.
have you treated your story fairly? that might be the best you or i can hope for.
- mark |
S.F. Falkner (Unregistered Guest)
Work-in-progress guest
Posted From: 204.246.5.17
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, June 21, 2004 - 11:20 pm: | |
Gloria wrote:
"These authors and books just show me that nothing counts as much as talent. Nothing we can learn matters if we don't have it.
But how do we know if we have it or not?"
If you quit writing, you don't have it.
Some doubt is a good thing. There is nothing worse than an overconfident artist. Too much doubt is a bad thing. If you've got that much doubt over your talent, abilities... then quit. Talent is an organic thing. It changes with time, it can ebb and flow, and sometimes you just have to give it a good swift kick in the ass to get it going.
'Don't know who said this, but it went something like,
"The Gift is great, but the Gift is nothing without the work."
(I seem to be the king of unattributed quotes... sorry)
Anyway, it's all right there in that line. Do the work, and then do some more. If you've got talent, it'll rear its ugly head eventually.
(And in the meantime--force yourself to read some BAD books. It'll ratchet up your ego factor!)
S.F. Falkner |
Molly Brent
Hunger Member
Post Number:
62
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 22, 2004 - 04:00 am: | |
Is this it?
The artist is nothing without the gift, but the gift is nothing without the work.
Emile Zola
Molly |
Gloria Marlow
Unity Member
Post Number:
1002
Registered: 04-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 22, 2004 - 07:29 am: | |
S.F., I don't necessarily doubt my talent. As a matter of fact, the majority of books I've read lately leave me thinking that I definitely have talent. However, there is joy in finding one that makes me doubt my talent, because now I am on a quest to figure out what I liked about the book that I don't see in my own work.
Personally, I think it all comes down to detail. I think new authors tend to go one of two ways on detail, either too much or too little. It's difficult to find that happy medium. I've noticed that most of my favorite authors have their older works available again. Almost without fail, their older works are half the size of their latest ones. Practice makes perfect, I guess.
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Bill Nelson
Wandering Member
Post Number:
205
Registered: 10-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 22, 2004 - 10:21 am: | |
Gloria,
I also have an unattributed quote.
"Until you put over a million words on paper, you're not a writer!"
I think its an ever expanding thing.Consider any actor, athlete, musician, painter, etc. that is tops in their field. They've always had "it", but it had to be developed.
"Poof" would be great, but alas...
You're wonderful, just know it!
bn
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Nancy Marie
Unity Member
Post Number:
1779
Registered: 08-2001
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 22, 2004 - 05:25 pm: | |
Gloria,
That was my point exactly. Somewhere around here I started a thread and I talked about details. I figure that really great writers know when to add just exactly the right details at the right time to make the story not just good, but great!
With the new book I am writing I am taking more time to add little details, details that will pull the reader into the story more completely.
Like you, I wanted to know what made these great writers stand out from the others and the only thing I came up with was details.
Kitty
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Perry Comer
Unity Member
Post Number:
1408
Registered: 04-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 22, 2004 - 06:35 pm: | |
Somewhere, someone wrote something that makes a lot of sense. It goes like this, "if you have talent, natural God given talent, you don't realize it because it is such a natural part of you. You can't understand why everyone thinks your talent is so great because everyone should be able to do what you do."
In psychology, people think less of their abilities than do others.
my tiny opinion - talent is best exhibited in one word -- FLOW - the really great writers create seamless smooth works (Mercedes Benz). Those with less talent create stuttering, sputtering works (Vegas, Corvairs,Yugos). When you can create flow from word one through word two hundred-thousand, then you will have mastered the craft and made the most of your talent.
http://www.pacwriter.netfirms.com/ |
S.F. Falkner (Unregistered Guest)
Work-in-progress guest
Posted From: 204.246.5.17
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 22, 2004 - 11:24 pm: | |
Molly-That's the one! Thanks for the clarification.
"Until you put a million words on paper, you're not a writer."
I can't remember who said that one either, Bill, but I remember when I read it the for the first time. I was flabbergasted. I read it while writing my first book and thought that whoever had said it was CRAZY. Now that I'm about halfway to a million words... I tend to agree, to an extent.
If you're serious about writing, you're CONSTANTLY honing what and how you write. Therefore, the sheer act of writing on a consistent basis "should" sharpen your skills and make you a better writer. Of course, this is all common knowledge for all of us here, but sometimes it's good just to say it out loud, (or, as in this case, read it aloud).
Gloria, I think that in wanting to examine books you like more closely to find out why you like them, suggests--and most likely implies--talent. I also think that ANYONE that can carry a cohesive story through 100,000 or 500,000 words, has the core talent to become a very, very good writer, and worthy of publication.
Can that same person become a "Great" writer? That, I think, is the unknown 'X' factor when it comes to talent.
S.F. Falkner |
Harry Simenon
Wandering Member
Post Number:
183
Registered: 10-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 23, 2004 - 01:27 pm: | |
I’m actually not too worried if I’m gifted at writing or not. I hope I am of-course. But I just love writing, and that is why I write. If I can get it published it will be even better. (Not POD)
The problem is that I like to experiment, and I doubt it that I write mainstream. And I don’t think I will change that, although I will try to improve my writing.
I write, put it away, and read it again. If I like it myself it is OK, if not I’ll try to define what irritates me and try to improve that part.
No idea if that makes me a writer or not.
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Mary Erickson
Awareness Member
Post Number:
22
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 23, 2004 - 08:30 pm: | |
Gloria, I've been there, done that! Two books I've read in the past few months have made me question my ability as a writer. Sue Monk's "The Secret Life of Bees," is one. Granted, the author grew up in the South in the sixties and actually lived the life of her protagonist. But, she had to take off from there and weave the wonderful story that made it a best seller. How much was fact and how much fiction? I don't know, but this author definitely has the ability to create characters and dialogue I could only marvel at. The other book was one I'd somehow missed in my education -- Steinbeck's "East of Eaden, which speaks for itself. The man was a genius. I'm not sure I need to read any more good books right now! Anyone know of a bad one?
Mary |
D.R.
Wandering Member
Post Number:
125
Registered: 05-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, July 02, 2004 - 02:31 pm: | |
No one ever said anything about quitting writing.
It is interesting how we all put our own perceptions into what others say.
Life is a metaphor.
- D -
http://www.drbennett.2ya.com |
Harry Simenon
Wandering Member
Post Number:
222
Registered: 10-2003
Rating: 
Votes: 3 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, July 12, 2004 - 01:41 pm: | |
Live is a one way trip to death.
Better make that trip interesting as we are not sure we will return. |
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