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Bill Nelson
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Post Number: 1189
Registered: 10-2002


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Posted on Tuesday, June 14, 2005 - 05:26 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

I'm going to be in Houston this coming week-end for the MWA convention.
I have a pitch session (15 minutes) with an Editor of Berkley Publishing.
I've worked pretty hard on a presentation and I guess it will be my fifteen minutes of fame.
I look at this as a last ditch stand.
Please think good thoughts for me.
Bill Nelson

RISEN, ISBN 1-93301616-4
Behler Publications
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Laurel Johnson
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Post Number: 3936
Registered: 01-2002

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Posted on Tuesday, June 14, 2005 - 05:35 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

I will certainly think good thoughts for you but there is no such thing as a last ditch stand. John Laurence Robinson -- for one -- will attest to that.
Best of luck to you!!
Laurel Johnson

Author: The Grass Dance
The Alley of Wishes
Color of Laughter, Color of Tears
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Tom Elkins
Wandering Member
Post Number: 123
Registered: 01-2005


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Posted on Tuesday, June 14, 2005 - 06:03 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Damn! I'm just up the road from Houston and didn't even know about it. Story of my life.

te
Tom Elkins
NORTH of TEXAS
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F.E. Mazur
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Post Number: 112
Registered: 02-2005


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Posted on Wednesday, June 15, 2005 - 04:58 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Bill, just pretend the editor to whom you're talking is me. You'll do fine.
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Bill Nelson
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Post Number: 1190
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Posted on Wednesday, June 15, 2005 - 07:32 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Frank,
I don't think diving over the table and wrestling her to the ground is the thing to do. I'll just pretend she's wearing a "I Love Bush" button!

Bill Nelson

RISEN, ISBN 1-93301616-4
Behler Publications
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Michael Ball
Awareness Member
Post Number: 10
Registered: 05-2005

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Posted on Wednesday, June 15, 2005 - 08:28 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Bill,

Most "sales" or "pitches" are won or lost in the first one to three minutes. The rest of the time solidifies your relationship with the "buyer". Open strong and have fun with it. You know your subject, so find out what she needs to be sucessful. The old proverbial "win-win". Best of luck and just remember to say "Go Pistons!!!!!!" (Be sure not to nick her with one of your spurs.)

Mike
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Mike Manno
Hunger Member
Post Number: 51
Registered: 11-2004

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Posted on Wednesday, June 15, 2005 - 09:10 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Good luck, Bill.

That is how I sold my book to Five Star, at a pitch session at a mystery conference. In addition to my "pitch" I took along a two page summary of what I had: the book I was pitching, a paragraph on the next two books in the series and their status (one finished the other almost), and a summary of the major characters. They won't take the manuscript at a conference, too much stuff to carry on the way home. Dress professionally, not like a slob, and treat the pitch like an informal job interview. One thing important to these guys is the word count. At the end of the pitch don't forget to ask: Where do you want me to send the manuscript?

Let us know how you make out.

Mike Manno
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Jennifer Lynn
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Post Number: 1746
Registered: 03-2002


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Posted on Wednesday, June 15, 2005 - 09:26 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Good luck, Bill!
Jennifer Lynn
www.jenniferlynn.ca
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Claudia Turner VanLydegraf
Mindsight Moderator
Post Number: 2163
Registered: 06-2002

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Posted on Wednesday, June 15, 2005 - 09:59 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

keeping my fingers and toes crossed for you Bill. Hope all that you put together works it's magic on whomever you want it to.

By the way, have a great time while you are there.
Claudia
MINDSIGHT MODERATOR

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Mary Erickson
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Post Number: 204
Registered: 04-2004


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Posted on Wednesday, June 15, 2005 - 10:10 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Bill, good luck. And for gosh sakes, behave yourself. It would be embarrassing to wind up in the corner at a writers conference. I have one ( a pitch session) coming up in July at a Wisconsin Writers Conference. What do you take with you. I know they don't want the full manuscript, but how about a synopsis? a short and long one.
www.merickson.org
www.behlerpublications.com
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Claudia Turner VanLydegraf
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Post Number: 2164
Registered: 06-2002

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Posted on Wednesday, June 15, 2005 - 11:30 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Mary,
re-read what Mike Manno wrote and that will give you a great deal of info about what to take and stuff. He already got his book that was with PA put with another company during one such "Pitch" session. He is also a lawyer and sort of "knows" what is looked for at those things. In other words, I would certainly recommend taking his advice on this subject,especially IF I were able to get to one of those seminars.
Claudia
MINDSIGHT MODERATOR

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Bill Nelson
Unity Member
Post Number: 1191
Registered: 10-2002


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Posted on Wednesday, June 15, 2005 - 11:50 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Jeeze,
Mike tells me not to dress like a slob; Mary says behave yourself!
I don't think I'll even go if I can't be myself...
Bill Nelson

RISEN, ISBN 1-93301616-4
Behler Publications
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Stacy Anderson
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Post Number: 151
Registered: 04-2004

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Posted on Thursday, June 16, 2005 - 11:25 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Bill wrote:

" I don't think diving over the table and wrestling her to the ground is the thing to do. "

Uh no Bill unless you want to find yourself in jail for harrassment. I think we should keep the physical contact to a minimum. Just pretend the editor is naked and you'll loosen up, LOL.

Stacy
http://www.stacy-deanne.net
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Frederick A. Babb
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Post Number: 371
Registered: 04-2004


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Posted on Friday, June 17, 2005 - 07:16 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Stacy,

I would have to disagree. Depending on the physcial appearance of this editor, if Bill pretends she is naked, he made harden up. LOL
Preview books: http://www.frederickbabb.bravehost.com
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Joyce Scarbrough
Wisdom Member
Post Number: 592
Registered: 03-2004


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Posted on Friday, June 17, 2005 - 10:03 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Well, I guess Bill is there now, so I'm sending my good thoughts his way as I write this.

BTW, I love coming here and finding a new episode of the "Bill and Frank Show." Those two really crack me up.

Toyce
True Blue Forever

Read the first chapter at http://www.authorsden.com/joycelscarbrough1
Read two chapters of Different Roads at http://www.authorsden.com/visit/mtr.asp?id=7737&loc=ShortStory
Pour yourself a glass of bubbly and check out Champagne Books http://www.champagnebooks.com

Our children have only one childhood, so do whatever it takes to make it happy!
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Stacy Anderson
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Post Number: 152
Registered: 04-2004

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Posted on Friday, June 17, 2005 - 10:32 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

LOL, Fred! By the way I never told you how snazzy you look in that suit!

Stacy
http://www.stacy-deanne.net
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Frederick A. Babb
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Post Number: 372
Registered: 04-2004


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Posted on Saturday, June 18, 2005 - 01:49 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Why thanks Stacy. Just don't start imagining me naked. You might bnreak into hysterical laughter. lol
Preview books: http://www.frederickbabb.bravehost.com
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Bill Nelson
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Post Number: 1196
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Posted on Monday, June 20, 2005 - 08:57 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

I had my shot with a very nice lady from New York. While she didn't invite me to go back to NY with her, she did request a full MSS. We had some meaningful conversation. It was a nice meeting. We'll see what develops.

Some thoughts and highlights from the Pros...
(numbers quoted my unofficial estimate)

Attendees, 150, 80% women, 60% of them, over forty. Men, same. No young (20-30) people in attendance.

What editors don't want to see right now. Another Jesus story; another mid-Eastern terrorist story; another Columbian warlord story; another Harry Potter knock-off. Nothing under 60M words nor over 110M.

What's Hot. Chicklit, stories with strong female protags., mystery/adventure; romance/mystery. Other cross genre stories even romance/fantasy (eg.woman falls in love with vampire). Vampires sell!

The over riding theme behind all speakers was one (aspiring author) must promote, promote, promote--do something to "stand out". Go to seminars, on-line groups, haunt book-stores, mail to list (buy one if you don't have one). The standard mantra, NEVER, NEVER GIVE UP!!!

My personal evaluation was that most conversation (advice) pre-supposed you were published, Promote, promote, promote, yourself and your work. There was not very much in depth discussion about how to get an agent or get published. The usual "follow guidelines, query with SASE, etc.. Don't send unsolicited manuscripts" yada, yada. Nothing out of the ordinary.

It's like saying to a writer of Spam, keep working, trying to defeat the blockers. You come with new way, they counter with new software. The tug-of-war goes on and on. The message is lost and of secondary importance. The struggle is the thing!

An aside: Smokers beware. Two of the editors in attendance said if they opened an envelope and smelled cigarette smoke, the mss went out the window, not to the slush pile. If you smoke, the paper absorbs odors. Keep smoking out of room you work in. Interesting!

It seems to me that an aspirant needs to quit day job, draw money out of IRA and other savings, take out second mortgage on home or borrow heavily from bank to finance your promotions. After being a book salesman all day, you have the hours of around six pm to roughly two am to produce new work. Sleep a couple of hours and do it again. Ship your family off until you have hit the big time. You'll have no time for them and they won't help you anyway. If you don't want to do all that take up needlepoint to satisfy your creative urges.

I talked to one author, Joe Lansdale, who has published 20 novels and 10 short story collections. He has won six Bram Stoker Awards, two NY Times Notable Book selections. A short story "Bubba Ho=Tep" became a sci-fi murder and mayhem movie. He says it's ten times tougher to get published today than twenty years ago, but just keep kicking doors. Only choice you have.

Good Advice to Think About: One agent (biggie out of New Orleans) said she wanted to see writing that has surprises. Not big events, but unpredictable story line. She hates to be able to read ahead of the story.

All in all, it was educational.
Bill Nelson

RISEN, ISBN 1-93301616-4
Behler Publications
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Bill Nelson
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Post Number: 1197
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Posted on Monday, June 20, 2005 - 09:11 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

OH, one of the most important things mentioned.....
This is in line with a recent conversation on this board.

If you have experienced an ill-published episode(s), it is not necessarily a good thing to show it on your credits. If you are self-published, or have been published by POD, that can be a negative recommendation. A suggestion (and they underlined "suggestion") would be to forget those, write under a different name and move on. For example, if you send a query and say I am a published author having had my book XYZ published by ABC publishing, the publisher you are petitioning has easy access to your sales numbers and they do look at them. If they are only one or two or three hundred, they will generally tank your query. You are a proven non-seller, so don't brag about it. They also take a very dim view of re-written, previously published books (for any reason). A lot of potential legal flack, even if you have rights restored. Why invite the heart-ache?
Bill Nelson

RISEN, ISBN 1-93301616-4
Behler Publications
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Tom Elkins
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Post Number: 127
Registered: 01-2005


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Posted on Monday, June 20, 2005 - 11:58 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Bill -

Good insights...especially about the women over 40. Did you hang around for Juneteenth? Houston turns out for it big time.

Go Spurs! Looked bad there for awhile.

te
Tom Elkins
NORTH of TEXAS
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cora morace
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Post Number: 131
Registered: 11-2004

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Posted on Monday, June 20, 2005 - 08:44 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Gosh Bill, How discouraging!
Seems like the elite (or the wanna-bes) have the reins in the publishing game. I'm not a smoker and in fact, am often offended by smoker odor, but the idea of tossing a manuscript on that account seems ridiculously overboard to me. And to suggest that an author write a particular genre "because it sells" is one absurd notion to my mind.
To the magnates of the publishing game, my thoughts. 1)Truly sorry that vampires and Chiklit have replaced honest worthwhile fiction. 2)And what could say more about an author's dedication than the credit of having been published? So what if sales are not sterling? Cripes, you've just admitted that success depends upon promotion, not content, now you are going to judge the book's worth by unpromoted sales?
3)And where are all the agents? Are there so many truly successful established writers who worked themselves to the top for the privilege of supporting an agent once they got there that there are no more agents out there looking for solid writers to promote?
I liked the honesty of the last lady's comments, if for no other reason than she admits that she reads. Hmmm, wonder if that applies to any of the others...
Sorry, I just find this whole scene depressing.....good thing I hate needlepoint and enjoy my writing with or without publication.
CJ
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Joyce Scarbrough
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Post Number: 595
Registered: 03-2004


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Posted on Tuesday, June 21, 2005 - 07:27 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Thanks for all the insights, Bill. I choose to zero-in on the "strong female protagonists are hot" comment and ignore the pessimistic ones.

Congrats on the mss request!


Toyce
True Blue Forever

Read the first chapter at http://www.authorsden.com/joycelscarbrough1
Read two chapters of Different Roads at http://www.authorsden.com/visit/mtr.asp?id=7737&loc=ShortStory
Pour yourself a glass of bubbly and check out Champagne Books http://www.champagnebooks.com

Our children have only one childhood, so do whatever it takes to make it happy!
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Bill Nelson
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Post Number: 1199
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Posted on Tuesday, June 21, 2005 - 08:58 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Cora,
If you will examine my comments you will see I share your feelings, BUT, also looking a little deeper, the comments from the "powers" are what's SELLING, meaning what people want to read!
If one's true calling is writing Brer Rabbit tales and no one wants to read them, then the "How to Needlepoint in 10 Easy Lessons" comes into play.
Move over to movies and look at story content in HOT MOVIES today. There ain't any! It's all flash, bang, boom, blow 'em up. If you edit out the blow up scenes, there is hardly anything left. Yet, look at the box-office draw!
If one doesn't want to write what sells, one will be carrying a torch around looking for an honest editor/agent and living in a box, but probably to no avail. That's reality!
It's probably what will make me a candidate for a "Make Your Garage Into a Woodworking Shop Overnight" book.

By the way, "HOT" ebbs and flows, you know?????????!!!!! Maybe Uncle Remus will make a comeback if one hangs in there long enough. Save them tar-babies, chilluns.

Joyce,

Thank you, but it's only first base, a long way from home! I like strong women, too. They can wash my truck, mow the grass, do the laundry, cook..... ah, you know how us red-necks are...
Bill Nelson

RISEN, ISBN 1-93301616-4
Behler Publications
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Joyce Scarbrough
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Post Number: 598
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Posted on Tuesday, June 21, 2005 - 11:10 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

They can also hit you with a roundhouse punch one minute and leave you helpless in their arms, weak but smiling, in another.

Toyce
True Blue Forever

Read the first chapter at http://www.authorsden.com/joycelscarbrough1
Read two chapters of Different Roads at http://www.authorsden.com/visit/mtr.asp?id=7737&loc=ShortStory
Pour yourself a glass of bubbly and check out Champagne Books http://www.champagnebooks.com

Our children have only one childhood, so do whatever it takes to make it happy!
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cora morace
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Post Number: 132
Registered: 11-2004

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Posted on Tuesday, June 21, 2005 - 11:36 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Bill,
You are so right, fads do change, but through the years I've also found that the cream rises....regardless of political correctness or topics that are hot..
No more Jesus stories? I wonder if anyone informed Mel Gibson?... we can all hope that ours may be the "breakout" work ingniting a renewed interest in our chosen genre and topic and in the meantime just enjoy writing for the satsifaction it brings.
I spent my life in Sales...but never believed in selling. I presented my product with the complete facts about it, with honesty that probably cost me plenty in commissions...but I rarely "sold", I let the customer decide for themselves about the benefits versus cost and then provided excellent service for the process. I have the same philosphy about my books. I make them available...I present them truthfully, but I'm not confronting people to sell them. Acting as though my life was based on the success of my writings would be unbalanced and quite out of character for me. Which means I probably will never push my way into the "chosen"of the editors of your convention, well, so be it.
Joyce,
I love a capable heroine as well as the next person, when I refer to "Chicklit" I think more of the rampant feminist writings than the stories blessed with a female character with strength. Ask Bill to send you the "Beef Babes" if he hasn't already done so. Some of the feminist writings seem similar in their over achieving.
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Joyce Scarbrough
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Post Number: 600
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Posted on Wednesday, June 22, 2005 - 07:42 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Actually, Cora, I don't think the publishers looking for "Chicklit" have either my perception or yours in mind. They seem to be looking for "Bridget Jones" type stories of youngish, unmarried women dealing with their careers, dates, friends, shopping, etc. My heroines don't exactly fit in there either.

Toyce
True Blue Forever

Read the first chapter at http://www.authorsden.com/joycelscarbrough1
Read two chapters of Different Roads at http://www.authorsden.com/visit/mtr.asp?id=7737&loc=ShortStory
Pour yourself a glass of bubbly and check out Champagne Books http://www.champagnebooks.com

Our children have only one childhood, so do whatever it takes to make it happy!
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Tom Elkins
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Post Number: 130
Registered: 01-2005


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Posted on Wednesday, June 22, 2005 - 08:34 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

My daughter and I trade books. Most of the books she brings to me are mystery fiction. The protagonists include a sheriff, private investigator, a couple of attornies, a medical examiner, etc. All are women. Is that what you mean by "Chicklist"? Oddly enough, many of the authors are men. The protagonists do pretty much what men do, but with "feelings".

te
Tom Elkins
NORTH of TEXAS
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Bill Nelson
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Post Number: 1206
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Posted on Wednesday, June 22, 2005 - 09:10 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

If you back off and look at "things" outside literature--astrology or other esoteric pursuits, it will indicate the time of "woman" is upon us as we move deeper into the Aquarian Age. Women are taking a more active role in all levels of our lives from Attorney to Astronaut, Policeofficer to Physician, etc. I think "Chicklit" is simply a recognition of that fact. Women have left the nest forever. They are shakers and movers (insert your own pun here). Move over guys...
Dang, who am I gonna git to warsh my truck now? Am I gonna have to git up and get my own brew? Whatinhell is this world comin' to?
Bill Nelson

RISEN, ISBN 1-93301616-4
Behler Publications
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Fred Dungan
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Posted on Wednesday, June 22, 2005 - 11:37 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Not all is lost. You can still find the traditional barefoot and pregnant Baby Factory type of woman (kinder, kitchen, kuch) in foreign countries. The only problem is that once you get them over here, they change rapidly.

The dog can bring you your beer and the carwash can make your car shine.

Have you taken a look at any of the online mail order Brides Books? You can get a cute, blonde Russian professor of English Literature for the price of a plane ticket to the United States. Who knows, you may never use spellcheck again.

http://www.fdungan.com/vigilantes.htm
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Stacy Anderson
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Post Number: 156
Registered: 04-2004

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Posted on Thursday, June 23, 2005 - 12:47 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Bill, I'll wash your truck and get your beer...for a flat fee of 6,000 dollars. As a bonus I'll wear a thin T-shirt while washing the truck. Of course that will cost you an extra five hundred but it's worth it.

Heck, it may not be like the " old " days but you can still get women to do things for a certain price, LOL. Heck I'd do just about anything for the right amount of money. Do you need your toenails clipped too?

Stacy
http://www.stacy-deanne.net
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Fred Dungan
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Posted on Thursday, June 23, 2005 - 01:20 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Isn't she adorable?

http://www.fdungan.com/vigilantes.htm
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Frederick A. Babb
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Post Number: 377
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Posted on Saturday, June 25, 2005 - 09:55 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Dang Stacy...I only have $6,499.24. Can I give an IOU for the other 76 cents?
Preview books: http://www.frederickbabb.bravehost.com
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Stacy Anderson
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Post Number: 157
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Posted on Sunday, June 26, 2005 - 09:33 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

I'll make way for a discount for you, Fred.

Stacy
http://www.stacy-deanne.net
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Tom Elkins
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Post Number: 136
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Posted on Monday, June 27, 2005 - 06:46 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Is this a bidding war? I have $6,499.50.

te
Tom Elkins
NORTH of TEXAS
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Stacy Anderson
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Post Number: 161
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Posted on Monday, June 27, 2005 - 04:45 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Okay Tom you get a discount too. But you're the last one. I'm getting emails by the truckload since I offered, LOL.

Stacy
http://www.stacy-deanne.net
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Tom Elkins
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Post Number: 139
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Posted on Monday, June 27, 2005 - 06:34 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Thanks. Where do you live???

te
Tom Elkins
NORTH of TEXAS
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Dennis Collins
Mindsight Moderator
Post Number: 1688
Registered: 06-2002


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Posted on Wednesday, January 11, 2006 - 06:43 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

I'll be attending "Love is Murder" in Chicago on Feb. 3,4,5. I have a pitch session scheduled with Five-Star publications to try to sell, "For Thine is the Power."

I have not tried to shop this manuscript around at all, haven't sent one single query. I did have the first fifty pages critiqued by a NYT best selling author and she sent me an eight page report full of suggestions and a lot of encouragement.

I noticed that Karen Syed is registered for this conference too. Aren't there some mindsighters with Echelon? Want me to say hi for you?
Dennis Collins
Moderator
www.theunrealmccoy.com
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Bill Nelson
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Post Number: 1612
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Posted on Wednesday, January 11, 2006 - 07:57 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Chicago in Feb. Brrrr. But, you're used to it.
Best of luck, Dennis. Experience is the thing. We are the sum total of everything that has ever happened to us...
Maybe this will be "the one" for you. Sic 'em.
Bill Nelson

RISEN, ISBN 1-93301616-4
Behler Publications
Hiding Places, Den of Deception
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Fred Dungan
Unity Member
Post Number: 1353
Registered: 10-2002


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Posted on Wednesday, January 11, 2006 - 10:40 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

I can almost hear Frank Sinatra singing "...my kind of town - Chicago is my kind of town."

http://www.fdungan.com/vigilantes.htm
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Mike Manno
Hunger Member
Post Number: 82
Registered: 11-2004

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Posted on Wednesday, January 11, 2006 - 11:03 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Dennis,
Luisa Buehler is with Echelon and she'll be at Love Is Murder. Karen was scheduled for last year but was ill and re-scheduled all her pitch sessions for phone calls. Echelon seems to be a good outfit and Karen is working hard to get her books in independents. She recently had a great post on the Midwest MWA board about her efforts. Luisa was high on Echelon when I last visited with her -- I think she's working on her third book with them. I have the firsts two and the quality is very good at reasonable prices for a trade paperback. By all means set a pitch session with her...and remember, you're buying the first round in the bar Friday night!
Mike
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Dennis Collins
Mindsight Moderator
Post Number: 1690
Registered: 06-2002


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Posted on Thursday, January 12, 2006 - 05:00 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

"...and remember, you're buying the first round at the bar Friday night."

Michigan has a ten cent deposit on returnable bottles and cans so I'd better get out and start scouring the shoulders of highways so I can scrape up enough to cover the tab.
Dennis Collins
Moderator
www.theunrealmccoy.com
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Dennis Collins
Mindsight Moderator
Post Number: 1723
Registered: 06-2002


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Posted on Monday, February 06, 2006 - 01:56 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

I didn't win the "Reader's Choice" award but I was up against some pretty tough competition. One of them had some pretty good luck with her first book. Her name is Judith Guest and her first novel was "Ordinary People." The prize was won by Joe Konrath for his six figure advance book, "Bloody Mary." William Kent Krueger was in the mix too and I know that his entire series has been optioned to Hollywood. Mike Manno's book was nominated too and it's not even out yet. (Wonder who he knows, eh?)
Dennis Collins
Moderator
www.theunrealmccoy.com
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Todd Hunter
Mindsight Moderator
Post Number: 3068
Registered: 02-2003


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Posted on Monday, February 06, 2006 - 06:15 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

I lost a short story contest over at Joe Konrath's website a couple of months ago. Small world...
Mindsight Moderator
Check out the musings over at Aston's new blog
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poker casino509 (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted on Monday, March 06, 2006 - 12:06 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

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