| Author |
Message |
    
Bill Nelson
Unity Member
Post Number:
1772
Registered: 10-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 03:53 pm: |   |
I think/thought we broached this once before, but I can't find a thread that looks like it.
Anyway, I have a question. Stretching a story has been mentioned before. The consensus seems to be, in telling your tale, quit when it's through. However, some say one should try to meet a 'number of pages' goal.
I've read that the mainstream publishers like 80K to 90K because this packages into a 350(+/-)page hard cover they can sell for $29.95.
Okay, if your story "ends" at 50K or 60K, how do you stretch it?
Just adding words for words sake seems to water down the rhythm of the tale.
Adding new scenes can be like using duct tape on something, it may hold it together, but it looks like hell. If you end up with 60 and want to go stretch it to 80, that's a little over 30% more.
Do you think one would be better served to outline up front and just make it fit. (If it don't fit, force it!)
Comments, please. |
Pacwriter
Unity Member
Post Number:
2259
Registered: 04-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 04:25 pm: | |
You can, as I have done, add a page here, a page there. For instance, a character is having a meal with a client, the client orders sushi, your character thinks, "Yuck - how can anyone eat raw fish." -- and your story moves on to whatever about the client. Now you can add a page such as why the sight of the raw fish brings up a memory of other people, events or childhood.
It is really easy to do when you take your time and read through the story, you find a lot of places to add a paragraph or a couple of pages. All without breaking the action or the flow. It gives characters and events more depth.
http://www.perrycomer.com
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Joyce Scarbrough
Wisdom Member
Post Number:
818
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 05:06 pm: | |
I'm in the process of lengthening my third book now. It's at 45K and I'm trying to get it to 60K by adding a few scenes and a little more introspection from the heroine, but I won't push it any further than that. It would show and weaken the story.
Toyce
~Joyce Sterling Scarbrough
True Blue Forever
ISBN 0-9722385-9-X
Second edition now available from Authors Ink Books
http://www.authorsinkbooks.com
Coming soon . . .
Different Roads
For first loves that get lost, hearts that call to each other, and the roads that lead us to the ones for whom we are meant.
Read the first chapter at http://www.authorsden.com/joycelscarbrough1
Pour yourself a glass of bubbly and check out Champagne Books http://www.champagnebooks.com |
Stephen Lodge
Hunger Member
Post Number:
74
Registered: 06-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 08:30 pm: | |
Add more descriptions.
Novels by Stephen Lodge:
"Shadows of Eagles"
"Charley Sunday's Texas Outfit!"
"Nickel-Plated Dream"
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LA
Unity Member
Post Number:
2170
Registered: 12-2001
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 08:58 pm: | |
Well, from the publishing side, when I'm doing layout, I can't stand the sight of blank pages, but every chapter is to start on an odd page. If I end up with a chapter that ends on an odd page, I sift back through it strengthening here and there, or adding a few extra details so that at least one paragraph goes onto that even-numbered page. A couple of times, this has resulted in a full 3-5 pages being added to a chapter in order to clarify a thought I started. Just so long as there aren't blank pages. When working with authors, it can get tricky at times. Sometimes, it takes both people to figure out what could possibly be added or subtracted to fit into the even ending, odd beginning format.
LA
Authors Ink Books
Available now: Gloria Davidson Marlow: THE BUTTERFLY GAME, SHADES OF SILENCE, FLOWERS FOR MEGAN. Joyce Sterling Scarbrough: TRUE BLUE FOREVER |
Fred Dungan
Unity Member
Post Number:
1456
Registered: 10-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 09:52 pm: | |
You are obviously quite meticulous. That's a good quality that will take you a long way in the publishing world. Despite what PublishAmerica says, the details are important. Good for you LA!
http://www.fdungan.com/vigilantes.htm |
Dennis Collins
Mindsight Moderator
Post Number:
1754
Registered: 06-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, February 23, 2006 - 05:53 am: | |
The subject of stretching has come up at some conferences that I've attended and I guess that it's quite common and even part of some writer's procedure. The more experienced writers seem quite comfortable stretching their stories to meet a publishers needs.
Robert W. Walker (36 books in print) tells the story about his agent submitting a book to one publisher who told him that they were looking for a longer book with a horror aspect to it. Rob told them that he'd add ten thousand words and a monster. They eventually bought the book.
The Unreal McCoy is 63,000 words and if I were to revise it I'm sure it would climb to at least 80,000.
While most publishers will tell you that there is no ideal length, it's hard to miss the fact that most published novels end up in the 80,000 to 90,000 word range.
Literary agent Cherry Weiner told me that my novel, For Thine is the Power at 82,000 words was too short to be classified as a thriller so she decided that I should call it a suspense novel. ??? Go figure.
Dennis Collins
Moderator
www.theunrealmccoy.com |
Fred Dungan
Unity Member
Post Number:
1457
Registered: 10-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, February 23, 2006 - 02:29 pm: | |
When Robert Purdue of Superior Books asked me to write two more chapters for Bushwhacked, I took it as a compliment (had he asked me to remove something, it would have been a different matter). However, it would be an outright cheat to substitute filler for creative matter. The chapters I added were my best work to date.
http://www.fdungan.com/bushwhacked.htm |
Gloria Marlow
Unity Member
Post Number:
1691
Registered: 04-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, February 23, 2006 - 06:55 pm: | |
The best scenes I've written have been added after I wrote "the end".
Gloria Davidson Marlow
**The Butterfly Game***Shades of Silence***Flowers for Megan**
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Harry Simenon
Unity Member
Post Number:
1002
Registered: 10-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, February 24, 2006 - 12:57 pm: | |
Sometimes my best words were 'The End' |
Sean D. Schaffer
Awareness Member
Post Number:
44
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, February 24, 2006 - 08:55 pm: | |
I've been stretching my present work quite a bit lately by simply doing more descriptions where I did not believe there were enough of them. So far, I've done about seven chapters this way, and have added roughly 5,000 words. An extra page or page-and-a-half of descriptives really have added, IMO, to the readability of the work.
I'm thinking that in the end, my work might end up a little more than 60,000 words in length. Maybe 65,000 but probably no more than that. But at least it is not the original 52,000 words in length that it was only a few weeks ago.
My problem with outlining everything into the work in advance is that I don't know all of what my work needs until after I've gotten the story's second draft written. Once that's taken care of, I can get a good idea what needs to be added and/or taken away.
Right now, I'm thinking that my work will not handle another sub-plot. So it's looking as though 60,000 to 65,000 words will be the book's limit. But at least it'll be told properly, and I'm hoping agents will enjoy it.
 |
Harry Simenon
Unity Member
Post Number:
1003
Registered: 10-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, February 25, 2006 - 07:43 am: | |
I never need to stretch, I usually need to shrink.
My novel is close to 135,000 words, and I had to shrink my short story from 4447 to 1750 for a contest, quite a cut I must say. It didn't change the heart of the story too much.
The danger is that you have to watch out for missing links, but in short stories that usually is not a problem. |
Todd Hunter
Mindsight Moderator
Post Number:
3117
Registered: 02-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, February 25, 2006 - 06:04 pm: | |
What's interesting is that I added scenes during my final edit on FID, and still ended up with fewer words than I started with...
Mindsight Moderator
Check out the musings over at Aston's new blog
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Joyce Scarbrough
Wisdom Member
Post Number:
821
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, February 26, 2006 - 09:22 am: | |
That happens to me too, Todd. I've never had to lengthen a manuscript before this one--TBF is 113,000 words and DR is 108,000--but when I'm revising, I just can't bring myself to leave in anything wordy or unnecessary for the sake of adding to the word count. If it's not essential, out it goes.
Toyce
~Joyce Sterling Scarbrough
True Blue Forever
ISBN 0-9722385-9-X
Second edition now available from Authors Ink Books
http://www.authorsinkbooks.com
Coming soon . . .
Different Roads
For first loves that get lost, hearts that call to each other, and the roads that lead us to the ones for whom we are meant.
Read the first chapter at http://www.authorsden.com/joycelscarbrough1
Pour yourself a glass of bubbly and check out Champagne Books http://www.champagnebooks.com |
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