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Gloria Marlow
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 18, 2002 - 01:45 pm: |   |
When is the best time to copyright a manuscript? With "Flowers for Megan", I sent in the copyright after it was accepted. I am just wondering if it is better to copyright before sending it to publishers or after. If you send it before and there are significant changes made will that matter? |
laurelj
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 18, 2002 - 03:10 pm: | |
That's a good question, Gloria. I wonder about that also. Someone told me once it wasn't all that important to get a copyright, but I can't remember who.
I got my copyright for The Grass Dance after PA accepted it. I wonder now if I should copyright the second one regardless of whether anyone accepts it or not.
LaurelJ |
Nancy Marie
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 18, 2002 - 03:19 pm: | |
I dunno for shure' but I would wait unit the manuscript is accepted before copyrighting it, and I would let the publisher do it.
Here's the reason. I want to enter "Star" in the Christy awards. But, ran into a problem. The book wasn't released until Jan. this year, but the copyright was filed last year. According to the contest rules, the copyright has to be in the same year as the year of the contest. So, normally I would be eliminated from entering because of the copyright date. But, thanks to some wise advice from Nancy Mehl, I asked PA to put a first printing date on my copyright page. The first printing date is for this year. So, the rules comittee thinks I might be able to still enter the contest because the first printing is in the same year as the contest year. (did that make sense?)
So, anyway, the lady at the Christy awards thinks I have a good shot at still being able to enter the contest because of that first printing date on the copyright page.
Nancy Mehl - THANK YOU FOR YOUR WISE ADVICE. - She told me to ask for this for that very reason, so my book wouldn't be disqualified from book contests because the copyright was older than the actual printing of the book.
However, if you are concerned about the manuscript. Mail a copy to yourself, don't open it when you receive it, and the postmark date on the envelop can serve as proof of copyright. Only you'd have to go to court to prove it and all, and ya' know how expensive that can be. But, it is legal proof of a copyright.
smiles and blessings, Kitty |
Nancy Mehl
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 18, 2002 - 06:25 pm: | |
Spent about an hour on the phone the other night with a really sharp literary attorney, thanks to Victoria. I wanted advice about this publisher problem I'm having. He gave me great advice - but one thing he said was to GET YOUR WORK COPYRIGHTED! I'd heard other things, too. I used to automatically copyright everything - but quit when I heard that it wasn't as important anymore.
However, after talking to this guy, I'm going to copyright my current work, asap. You see, in a situation like mine, where the publisher has tried to grab all the rights to my book, that copyright is my protection.
Nancy |
Nancy Marie
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 18, 2002 - 07:42 pm: | |
Hmm...that seems to totally contradict everything I just said. Oh well, it's not the first time I've been wrong, and I'm sure it won't be the last. Ya' learn something new everyday.
smiles and blessings, and my apologies, Kitty |
Vickie Adkins
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 18, 2002 - 08:46 pm: | |
Got this from http://www.benedict.com
Copyright protection attaches immediately and automatically upon fixation (reduction to a tangible form) of the work in question. So, why fork over the bucks and go to the trouble of filing a federal copyright registration? There are two fundamental answers:
ability to sue; and statutory damages.
Although copyright attaches upon fixation, you cannot actually sue someone for infringing your copyright until you have registered your work with the Copyright Office. And if you register your work within three months from the date of first publication, or at least prior to the date of infringement, you can collect statutory damages from the infringer. Otherwise, you are stuck with actual damages, which depending upon the situation, may be only nominal.
In other words, as soon as we create something unique, it becomes copyrighted, but not registered. So if someone steals it and we don't have it copyrighted, there's not much we can do.
Best,
Vickie |
Jan Fields
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 19, 2002 - 05:39 am: | |
I did a series of articles on copyright and interviewed several intellectual property attorneys for them. Your work is copyright protected from the moment you write it and many many many publishers will not be pleased to hear your manuscript is already registered before they read it. PA is a rare exception because they want you to copyright your work (probably they do it to avoid the expense of registering and of eating staff time to fill out the forms -- they keep costs down as low as possible to ensure company profit.). Most other publishers register the copyright for you, in your name, at their expense.
If you walk into a court room to sue of infringement and you have not copyrighted your material prior to entering, the judge will be visibly disgusted because (1) he will not be able to award you the damages he wishes to (I have known of this happening. The judge really really wanted to stick it to a publisher because the publisher should have known better but the writer came into the courtroom without copyright protecting her material. Her lawyer must have been serious a smuck. (2) He will feel like you ought to know better.
Now, there are several levels of damages available. If you copyright protect your material upon publication, you can collect the full array in response to infringement. If you have a manuscript that you are shopping around and you suspect a publisher who saw your manuscript infringed -- you can copyright at that moment and then pursue legal action (you don't have to wait to get your forms back from the copyright office). You will not be able to collect quite as much, but judges can get you money as long as you do register before you enter the courtroom. The actual dates you created the material (and were PROTECTED from copyright infringement) are not dependent upon the date you REGISTERED. If you have notes for your work, dated computer files, rough drafts, rejection letters naming the work, yadda yadda yadda -- those will substantiate your claims for date of creation and therefore copyright protection.
Lawyers advising clients will usually tell you to go register right now. They do that because then you are protected from any possible eventuality but what they don't tell you is that you will also alienate some publishers. They don't want to put a copyright date of 2002 on your book followed by a first printing date of 2008 or 2010 or whatever...it makes them look like they are publishing old stuff. Publishers can get weird about the oddest stuff. Also, the manuscript the publisher actually publishes may be different enough from your copyrighted material to have to be reregistered under a derivative work anyway.
Copyright protection will protect you from having your manuscript published under someone else's name...but it won't protect your idea. Many folks who think they want to sue, are only upset because they think a publisher stole their idea...copyright won't help you there. Ideas and concepts are free -- execution is what is copyrighted.
Jan |
Nancy Marie
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 19, 2002 - 06:08 am: | |
Hmm...seems I wasn't so far off base, after all. Also, seems like there is no correct answer for this question. Am I assessing the situation correctly/
smiles and blessings, Kitty |
Nancy Mehl
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 19, 2002 - 08:38 am: | |
Jan's points are all valid, however, in my situation I'll stick with the advice of the attorney. If St Kitts wanted to mess with me - they could because I signed over all rights to them.
I need to establish that this work is mine. The attorney asked about substantial changes to the original manuscript. There weren't any, but if the publisher had done a lot of editing, they could actually claim that a large part of the work was theirs.
It's all very subjective and must be applied to each situation. If I was working with a publisher I trusted, I wouldn't copyright the work myself. However, in a situation such as the one I'm in, protection is the key. There is another publisher looking at Sinner's Song. They know the situation and wouldn't fault me one bit for copyrighting the work. Perhaps as Jan says, some publishers don't appreciate it. I've never found that, but I haven't been looking for a publisher for a while. I will heed that advice with my new manuscript. As Jan says, PA is different and wants you to copyright your work yourself. Since I'd already copyrighted GRAVEN IMAGES in 1998, I just sent a copy of the paperwork in. And, there was confusion. PA sent info to Amazon and B&N stating that my work was released in 1998. This was a HUGE problem since most reviewers won't review books that aren't current - and it messes with contests since most are current to the year of release. So - in this instance, it would have been better to wait and deal with copyright at the time of publication.
Nancy |
Jan Fields
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 19, 2002 - 09:49 am: | |
Nancy,
If you signed over ALL Rights to St. Kitts and the contract is still in effect, are you sure it is even LEGAL to copyright the book? Of course, you're sure, you talked to a lawyer, but -- wow -- that is really interesting. I know in children's writing for educational publishers and book packagers, all rights sales are not that uncommon (they are also sometimes called "Work for Hire" and it means nearly the same thing.) In those situations, the copyright is NOT in the writer's name but in the name of the publication because they own...well...all the rights. For the writer to actually try to register the work in their own name while an all rights contract with one of these publishers was still in effect could be actionable as copyright infringement AGAINST the educational publisher. (At least, this is how it was explained to me).
I am really not trying to be difficult but I would like to understand the legal mechanics of this. Of course, since St. Kitts wouldn't have registered the book yet, perhaps that is why it is okay for you to register...hmmmm...fascinating. Really fascinating. Maybe the legal grounds is because they are in breach of contract? Hmmm...I am glad you have a good lawyer because this one is really something.
Jan |
Brian T. Seifrit
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 19, 2002 - 11:29 am: | |
Hey, guys hows it going? I always copyright everything I write. This is how we're allowed to do it in Canada. I'm not sure it's the same in the US. And sending your ms to yourself is also legal, up here. But, I beleive it has to be registered mail. What I do is this: (c) 19..- 20.. and then of course your name etc. I've been told that is quite legal and binding, however, I too have been wrong...
Brian T. |
LaurieAnne Cruea
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, April 21, 2002 - 04:46 pm: | |
I haven't added to this thread yet, but here is something I like to do to secure date information for validation of creation (enough long words for you?). I burn my manuscripts into CD's. The file date info is then a permanent fixture on the CD and can be verified very easily. The file date info on a typical floppy can be tampered with, whereas a CD is permanent, thus allowing a little extra security and validity in the event one would have to go to court.
It's not much, but it's something.
LA |
Nancy Mehl
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, April 21, 2002 - 08:30 pm: | |
Jan,
Sorry, I wasn't clear. I'm sending St Kitts a letter asking them to write me back and declare that all rights have been returned to me. It's called an "anticipatory breach." Meaning, I can legally declare a breach after a certain date - but since they've declared that they have no intention of publishing, I can ask that they go ahead and ask for my rights back now. THEN the lawyer said I should send off the copyright. I think, because it's been poured over for so long by other people, he thinks it would be best to do it "by the book." That way, if another publisher is interested, I can prove to them that the work IS still mine because I own the copyright.
Don't know - it's confusing, isn't it?!?
Nancy |
Jan Fields
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 22, 2002 - 05:51 am: | |
Nancy,
Oh, okay. I understand now and also understand why the lawyer told you to register this particular book. Thanks. With something like copyright, caselaw can make a big difference and I thought I was really really getting behind in understanding how things work.
I hope you come out of all this with a happy ending.
Jan |
Nancy Mehl
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 22, 2002 - 07:19 am: | |
Me, too.
I'm sending the letter this week.
I've been contacting agents - but I'm also going to start sending out the manuscript to certain publishers.
There's one who is looking at it. At first, I was pretty certain they would pass. They're known for their historical mysteries. But, they have opened up to different kinds of mysteries. I would be thrilled to be accepted by them. They are so good - and I have tons of respect for them.
I'll keep you updated.
Thanks for everything you post here, Jan. I hope you know that I take everything you say quite seriously and really appreciate your expertise.
Nancy |
Nancy Marie
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 22, 2002 - 06:53 pm: | |
I'll keep praying, Nancy
smiles and blessings, Kitty |
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