| Author |
Message |
    
Bill Nelson
Unity Member
Post Number:
2801
Registered: 10-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 29, 2007 - 01:05 pm: |   |
How many major characters should a story have?
Should there be a minimum and/or a maximum?
What do you think? |
Harry Simenon
Unity Member
Post Number:
1603
Registered: 10-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 29, 2007 - 01:50 pm: | |
I usually only have a few main characters, like three or four max. I do think that when you introduce fifteen main characters that most of them will turn to background characters automatically.
Count the number of times you mention a name in your manuscript, that usually shows a gradually increase towards the main characters. And I have no idea where to draw a line between the main characters and the rest for this reason? |
Harry Simenon
Unity Member
Post Number:
1604
Registered: 10-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 29, 2007 - 02:19 pm: | |
I checked my novel, and came up with this list:
Jason 1679
Melina 1660
Amber 1243
Natotes 667
Nina 314
Darlena 241
Dayad 186
Ekanda 182
Eloim 159
Oron 137
Fritjof 97
Edve 81
Stanislas 80
Kamu 43
Lomas 41
Soln 31
Odys 28
Tjurn 28
Bern 10
Prava 8
So I would say there are rougly 3 or 4 main characters, and slowly decreasing in importance. There are more that did not made it to the list, as the are only mentioned a few times. |
Dennis Collins
Mindsight Moderator
Post Number:
2457
Registered: 06-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 29, 2007 - 06:33 pm: | |
My stories have a trio of protagonists instead of the usual one plus his/her sidekick. Other than that I try to keep it to one really bad guy with maybe a couple of low visibility cohorts. There is always a supporting cast but I try to keep their contributions to a minimum. The main focus has to be the good guys vs the bad guys.
I've read, or tried to read books that feature a cast of thousands and often find it downright confusing; besides I'm always forgetting their names and have to backtrack to make sure I'm visualizing trhe right character.
If I have a player who has a really small part I don't even give 'em a name.
Dennis Collins
Moderator
www.theunrealmccoy.com
http://theunrealmccoy.blogspot.com |
Harry Simenon
Unity Member
Post Number:
1607
Registered: 10-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, June 30, 2007 - 01:08 am: | |
My protagonists are a trio as well, (Jason, Melina, Amber,) that way I could create some more tension between the three.
The main enemy is Natotes, but in the end he turns out not to be that bad after all, and my protagonists are certainly no saints. A bit like the real world.
Furter on many of the other characters only play an role in a few chapters, and than make place for another one. |
Joyce Scarbrough
Unity Member
Post Number:
1090
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, June 30, 2007 - 08:49 am: | |
I'm sure everyone gets tired of hearing this, but it depends on the story. TBF had four main characters that were all equally important (to me, anyway). I guess you would say DR has two, although both Jaycee and Bud's fathers are key to the plot. SYMMETRY has three and my current WIP has four. I also always try to give all my peripheral characters something to make them memorable, even if they appear in only one scene. (Sometimes they turn out to be so colorful that they get a larger role. Lousy scene stealers!)
Stephen King is known for having large casts of characters. Readers sometimes argue about who are the main characters in THE STAND. (I say Stu Redmond and Randall Flagg.)
I don't think I'd ever attempt to focus on more than four characters, but who knows? Never say never!
~Joyce Sterling Scarbrough
True Blue Forever
ISBN 0-9722385-9-X
Different Roads
ISBN 0-9722385-3-0
Authors Ink Books
http://www.authorsinkbooks.com
Read the first chapters: http://www.authorsden.com/joycelscarbrough1
Waste time on Joyce's Blog: http://joycescarbrough.blogspot.com
Watch the trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kztz5e3XZeo |
Bill Nelson
Unity Member
Post Number:
2805
Registered: 10-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, June 30, 2007 - 09:03 am: | |
Bouncing off another post, the "rule" is three (Notice we said MAJOR characters).
This creates a dynamic of six: Character A to B;B to A; A to C; C to A; B to C; and C to B. That is six sets of dialogues and story lines to develop. More than that makes it hard for the reader to keep up (think Russian novel) with who is doing what to whom. Minor characters (also in three's) cement the scenes together in some way.
Also the "magic" three (triangle) should be considered in all phases of the story (according to the "rules"). The hero should get three major challenges and it should take three tries to overcome each. That is a dynamic of nine, or nine action scenes (a lot for your creative mind to deal with) interspersed with some exposition. If he solves a problem the first time, it is boring. The second is better, creating tension in failure, but failing twice ratchets the tension, then, the third time is the charm.
Three is good. |
Joyce Scarbrough
Unity Member
Post Number:
1092
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, June 30, 2007 - 09:14 am: | |
So, I'd guess you'd call it the Ménage à Trois Rule of Writing? 
~Joyce Sterling Scarbrough
True Blue Forever
ISBN 0-9722385-9-X
Different Roads
ISBN 0-9722385-3-0
Authors Ink Books
http://www.authorsinkbooks.com
Read the first chapters: http://www.authorsden.com/joycelscarbrough1
Waste time on Joyce's Blog: http://joycescarbrough.blogspot.com
Watch the trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kztz5e3XZeo |
Bill Nelson
Unity Member
Post Number:
2806
Registered: 10-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, June 30, 2007 - 09:31 am: | |
Yes, and by the way, are you and Lee Ann coming over this week-end?
 |
Fred Dungan
Unity Member
Post Number:
1941
Registered: 10-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, June 30, 2007 - 10:24 pm: | |
I agree with Dennis. Too many major players leads to confusion, especially in those long Russian novels where they have long names and you have to go back and forth to sort out Igor Vladimir Babarinkov from Igor Vladimir Boborinkov. Dr. Zhivago took me ages to read and I'm still not sure who did what. It's very easy to get lost in epic novels such as James Michener's Hawaii where five or more generations of characters carry on the family name. As I recall, every Dole who ever castigated a native born Hawiian made an appearance with the possible exception of Bob and Elizabeth. Do yourself a favor -- if you require a cast of thousands, write a script for Spielberg and skip the novel.
http://www.dunganbooks.com |
Gloria Marlow
Unity Member
Post Number:
1988
Registered: 04-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, July 01, 2007 - 07:42 pm: | |
Anything remotely related to mathematics and I'm done. I would be completely lost if I tried to write to such a formula.
Just like a tapestry, in books each person, action, etc. should add a certain color, shape, aspect and with that addition, the book should be more tightly woven and closer to perfection.
What makes a character a MAIN character? If we write where everything is essential to move the story alone, then taking a character out removes a major part of the story.
In my newest novel, I would say their are possibly six to eight MAIN characters and two to four I suppose supporting characters, although I believe they too are essential to the story. There are five or six background characters interspersed throughout the book who only keep the story moving in the direction it goes.
If I took any of my major or supporting characters out, it would damage the story and leave a big gaping whole. These characters are the cause and effect of the action, they are all involved in almost every single moment of the story whether they are actually in the scene or not. If I took the background characters out, I would have to redo major scenes and sequences of events. It would completely alter the entire book into something totally different.
Shades of Silence had a very small cast of characters. The Butterfly Game had a fairly small cast in the present, but each and every girl who was killed had an important scene that consisted of background information, action, etc. Flowers for Megan had a fair number of characters, but a lot of them were background characters because they town was a big part of the story and the inhabitants made the town.
All that to say, I agree with Joyce...it depends on the story.
Plus, as I've said before, a lot of the characters just sort of show up on the scene (screen) as I write.
I think I see my books as almost living entities...What they are, they were before I put them on paper.
Certifiable, I know.
Gloria
Gloria
www.gloriamarlow.com
Flowers for Megan**Shades of Silence**The Butterfly Game
|
Dennis Collins
Mindsight Moderator
Post Number:
2458
Registered: 06-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, July 02, 2007 - 10:05 am: | |
The problem with all of these rules is that they're primarily written by editors. Editors love rules... rules for the sake of rules.
Readers don't much care about rules.
The problem is getting your work past the editors.
And then getting it past the reviewers, many of whom think like editors and review for those with an editor's viewpoint.
What ever happened to a good story told with simple declarative sentences?
Dennis Collins
Moderator
www.theunrealmccoy.com
http://theunrealmccoy.blogspot.com |
Bill Nelson
Unity Member
Post Number:
2808
Registered: 10-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, July 02, 2007 - 10:30 am: | |
"What ever happened to a good story told with simple declarative sentences?"
Good stories, like good houses, are well constructed based on a plan, not
just boards nailed together to suit the carpenters urge.
Couldn't we agree on that?
Yes? No? |
Gloria Marlow
Unity Member
Post Number:
1992
Registered: 04-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, July 02, 2007 - 12:11 pm: | |
Yes. We can agree on the fact that houses need a plan, but I can't agree that good stories need one.
Here is our basic difference, Bill:
You see your books as something you build, make, etc. Like a cake, a house, a ditch, etc.
I see my books as something different. They are my creations to a point, but they are also something all on their own. If I don't write it and give the characters, etc. a voice, then someone else will. The way we do that, the way we tell the story, our own emotions, etc. make it whose it is.
Gloria
Gloria
www.gloriamarlow.com
Flowers for Megan**Shades of Silence**The Butterfly Game
|
Bill Nelson
Unity Member
Post Number:
2810
Registered: 10-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, July 02, 2007 - 12:58 pm: | |
Gloria,
Seems to me you're trying to make this a black and white issue. I'm not.
I do a lot of planning, researching and thinking before I start a story, true.
Those "rules" we throw around GUIDE me and keep me from wandering all over the place, but they don't DICTATE what or how the story unfolds. As you say, that most times has a life of its own.
And, I daresay, you plan much more than you are trying to suggest here.
If you didn't, you would never finish a story.
But, you say tomato, I say tomahto; you say potato, I say potahto, etc...... |
Gloria Marlow
Unity Member
Post Number:
1994
Registered: 04-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, July 02, 2007 - 01:27 pm: | |
Bill,
I was thinking the same thing about you.
Gloria
Gloria
www.gloriamarlow.com
Flowers for Megan**Shades of Silence**The Butterfly Game
|
Harry Simenon
Unity Member
Post Number:
1609
Registered: 10-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, July 02, 2007 - 01:30 pm: | |
I only had a very rough idea where my story was going. A lot of things happened I did not plan, that later turned out to be very useful.
I assume we more or less have the same opinion on how to apply "the rules" and when to follow inspiration? Just for some planning is more important than to others.
I strongly believe in feedback from readers, so I'm anxiously waiting to get the first rapports back on my novel I have sent out to about 15 people (who do not know me personally.) I hope that will give me an idea about the quality, and what needs to be done.
If I will never get it beyond editors after I'm finished: well too bad: I'll chuck it on the internet for free, or POD.
I prefer quality over being published. If I need to write crap to get published I rather stick to playing guitar. |
Stephen Lodge
Wisdom Member
Post Number:
548
Registered: 06-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, July 02, 2007 - 04:14 pm: | |
"Good stories, like good houses, are well constructed based on a plan, not
just boards nailed together to suit the carpenters urge."
Stories are not houses.
http://www.stephenlodge.com
Novels by Stephen Lodge:
"Charley Sunday's Texas Outfit!"
"Nickel-Plated Dream"
"Shadows of Eagles"
|
Bill Nelson
Unity Member
Post Number:
2811
Registered: 10-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, July 02, 2007 - 05:10 pm: | |
I give up!
I'm headed back to the cave!
 |
Stephen Lodge
Wisdom Member
Post Number:
549
Registered: 06-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, July 02, 2007 - 08:48 pm: | |
"I'm headed back to the cave!"
Caves are not stories ~
http://www.stephenlodge.com
Novels by Stephen Lodge:
"Charley Sunday's Texas Outfit!"
"Nickel-Plated Dream"
"Shadows of Eagles"
|
Joyce Scarbrough
Unity Member
Post Number:
1093
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, July 02, 2007 - 10:26 pm: | |
Okay, Bill. I'll throw you a bone.
I always write from an outline. I don't always stick to it, but I always have one before I start writing. It's pretty much bare bones at the start, then I add details as I reach each new section. I also make detailed character sketches of the protagonist(s) and antagonist(s) before I begin writing.
BUT! If I come to a spot where I need to "tell" a bit for brevity's sake or if I want to slip a bit of omniscient POV into the narrative in an otherwise third person limited book, I will do it. If editors want to reject my books based on these variances from their precious rules or if reviewers feel the need to point them out to make themselves feel important or earn editing brownie points, then I honestly hope a pox befalls them.
~Joyce Sterling Scarbrough
True Blue Forever
ISBN 0-9722385-9-X
Different Roads
ISBN 0-9722385-3-0
Authors Ink Books
http://www.authorsinkbooks.com
Read the first chapters: http://www.authorsden.com/joycelscarbrough1
Waste time on Joyce's Blog: http://joycescarbrough.blogspot.com
Watch the trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kztz5e3XZeo |
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