| Author |
Message |
    
Gloria Marlow
Unity Member
Post Number:
1991
Registered: 04-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, July 02, 2007 - 06:33 am: |   |
I know this sounds like a "newbie" question, but I'm going to ask it anyway. I know that copyrights legally exist the moment we write something, BUT do you copyright your manuscript before sending it out to agents, editors, etc.?
Gloria
Gloria
www.gloriamarlow.com
Flowers for Megan**Shades of Silence**The Butterfly Game
|
Laurel Johnson
Unity Member
Post Number:
4457
Registered: 01-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, July 02, 2007 - 06:40 am: | |
I send my completed work in for copyright before I submit it anywhere. I know the powers that be say it isn't necessary, but I do it anyway.
I know two writers who lost publishing contracts because their work was already copyrighted by them. I figure they were lucky. I have the attitude that nobody owns my work but me.
Laurel Johnson
http://laureljohnsonblogs.blogspot.com
|
Bill Nelson
Unity Member
Post Number:
2809
Registered: 10-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, July 02, 2007 - 10:33 am: | |
Gloria, look at it this way. What will it hurt to copyright? |
Harry Simenon
Unity Member
Post Number:
1608
Registered: 10-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, July 02, 2007 - 10:46 am: | |
I think it should be enough for now if you can proof you wrote it. I think that if you are Rowling, writing the next bestseller you should be really cautious. I don't believe it is much of a danger for us.
But copyright can't harm of-course.
My novel still has copyright from the PA period, even when translated. |
Gloria Marlow
Unity Member
Post Number:
1993
Registered: 04-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, July 02, 2007 - 01:22 pm: | |
I was wondering if publishers care if it is already copyrighted. From Lauren's post, I would guess that they do.
My husband is having a fit because I am querying agents and publishers (and passing it around for friends to read) without having it copyrighted.
Harry, if Rowling's first Harry Potter book had been stolen before it was published, I would be saying "who?". Of course, Harry Potter may still be a household name, but J. K. Rowling would not be.
Gloria
Gloria
www.gloriamarlow.com
Flowers for Megan**Shades of Silence**The Butterfly Game
|
Laurel Johnson
Unity Member
Post Number:
4458
Registered: 01-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, July 02, 2007 - 05:39 pm: | |
SOME publishers care, Gloria. Why they would be angry enough to cancel a contract because the writer already had their book copyrighted seems strange to me.
I believe strongly that the work is my property and I am the one who should copyright it. Of course, that is just my opinion.
Laurel Johnson
http://laureljohnsonblogs.blogspot.com
|
Todd Hunter
Mindsight Moderator
Post Number:
3626
Registered: 02-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, July 02, 2007 - 07:16 pm: | |
I guess the question is whether the publishers and agents we're submitting to are reputable or not...
Besides, even if it had a copyright registered, what's to stop a disreputable person from rewriting it with different character names, a different setting, and giving it a different title?
Can't copyright an idea...
Mindsight Moderator
Aston's Blog |
Harry Simenon
Unity Member
Post Number:
1610
Registered: 10-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, July 03, 2007 - 09:17 am: | |
One rather well know writer here was caught stealing parts of other writers, no idea what happened to him, but I never forgot that.
It is a silly thing to do I think: sooner or later somebody will find out. You can only get away with it if you never sell much, but than the loss for the original writer isn't too bad either. |
Fred Dungan
Unity Member
Post Number:
1946
Registered: 10-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, July 03, 2007 - 03:59 pm: | |
There is nothing new under the sun. Almost any idea that you come up with has already been explored by someone else. Witness the controversy over whether parts of the DaVinci Code were stolen from other writers. The unfounded notion that an idea can be copyrighted is ridiculous. When successful comedians "steal" each others' jokes, they almost always consider it a compliment. If a manuscript isn't out-and-out plagiarism, it shouldn't be subject to civil suits. When someone is over protective, what they are trying to protect is their inflated ego. Get over yourself and you may find that you actually enjoy competing on a level playing field with your colleagues. When writers litigate, the only ones who benefit are lawyers.
http://www.fdungan.com/duke.htm |
Bill Nelson
Unity Member
Post Number:
2813
Registered: 10-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, July 03, 2007 - 04:37 pm: | |
Fred,
In all the statements you've made on Mindsight, none is more on target than this. Shakespeare made a career stealing old Greek stories, and hundreds of other people have done the same from his work ever since.
I think work should be copyrighted once its accepted for publication, but, until then, why? It can't hurt, but it doesn't help much either. As you said, its mostly about lawyers. |
Dennis Collins
Mindsight Moderator
Post Number:
2461
Registered: 06-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, July 03, 2007 - 05:32 pm: | |
I had "The Unreal McCoy" copyrighted back in 1997 but didn't get it published until well over a year later. A lot of people questioned the gap, asked if it had been previously published by a different publisher. For that reason I have held off on copyrights until I sell the work.
As far as I know, all publishers want the copyright to be in the author's name.
Dennis Collins
Moderator
www.theunrealmccoy.com
http://theunrealmccoy.blogspot.com |
Gloria Marlow
Unity Member
Post Number:
1996
Registered: 04-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, July 03, 2007 - 09:12 pm: | |
I've noticed that many book awards/contests require that a book be published within the year or so before the contest. I wondered about copyright date and publication date being years apart.
Gloria
www.gloriamarlow.com
Flowers for Megan**Shades of Silence**The Butterfly Game
|
Harry Simenon
Unity Member
Post Number:
1612
Registered: 10-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 04, 2007 - 09:43 am: | |
Stealing ideas might indeed be a difficult one, as mosts plots repeat themselves.
But I do think one should try to be as original as possible, and certainly not steal whole chunks of text. It that case you are simply a fraud. |
Fred Dungan
Unity Member
Post Number:
1947
Registered: 10-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, July 05, 2007 - 05:36 pm: | |
They didn't teach you how to cut and paste? I must have come across 10 or 15 different versions of Beowulf and at least 30 of the King Arthur legend. Before these tales were put on paper, traveling bards told the stories in villages and roadside inns. The more they told them, the better they got. If it improves the story significantly, you aren't being dishonest nor or you violating the copyright. My goodness, if somebody had not added a flap to an airplane, pilots would still be bending the wing to make a turn. Copyrights and patents do not exclude improvements. Why reinvent the wheel? Must someone come up with a totally different way to open cans before he can add an attachment that makes the original can opener even better? When you stick your hand in someone's pocket, that's stealing. When you give back more than you took, that's what we call paying it back with interest. Be grateful for what you get and give credit where credit is due. Life is meant to be a humbling experience. Everything you think or do is based on prior knowledge and/or experience. The sooner we realize that we aren't as smart as we think we are, the more we will accomplish.
Chasing Loose Nukes by Colonel Derek Duke http://www.fdungan.com/duke.htm |
Harry Simenon
Unity Member
Post Number:
1615
Registered: 10-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, July 06, 2007 - 05:26 am: | |
Well, I would not be interrested in the 15th version of anything, but that is a matter of taste I suppose. |
Bill Nelson
Unity Member
Post Number:
2815
Registered: 10-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, July 06, 2007 - 10:43 am: | |
"Well, I would not be interested in the 15th version of anything, but that is a matter of taste I suppose."
One of the most recognized stories (and plot lines)in the world is Cinderella.
This story was first written down in China during the ninth century. it circulated the world for centuries, being introduced into the West by the collections of Charles Perrault and the Brothers Grimm (called Aschenputtel). Walt Disney sanitized it and made a veritable fortune as a children's story.
Who doesn't know the Cinderella story? It's been told over and over in countless versions in numerous languages as books, movies and plays.
Same story, over and over. |
Bill Nelson
Unity Member
Post Number:
2816
Registered: 10-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, July 06, 2007 - 10:45 am: | |
"Well, I would not be interested in the 15th version of anything, but that is a matter of taste I suppose."
One of the most recognized stories (and plot lines)in the world is Cinderella.
This story was first written down in China during the ninth century. it circulated the world for centuries, being introduced into the West by the collections of Charles Perrault and the Brothers Grimm (called Aschenputtel). Walt Disney sanitized it and made a veritable fortune as a children's story.
Who doesn't know the Cinderella story? It's been told over and over in countless versions in numerous languages as books, movies and plays.
Same story, over and over. |
Joyce Scarbrough
Unity Member
Post Number:
1097
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, July 06, 2007 - 09:33 pm: | |
Bill, you completely plagiarized the previous post with your last one!
~Joyce Sterling Scarbrough
True Blue Forever
ISBN 0-9722385-9-X
Different Roads
ISBN 0-9722385-3-0
Authors Ink Books
http://www.authorsinkbooks.com
Read the first chapters: http://www.authorsden.com/joycelscarbrough1
Waste time on Joyce's Blog: http://joycescarbrough.blogspot.com
Watch the trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kztz5e3XZeo |
Bill Nelson
Unity Member
Post Number:
2817
Registered: 10-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, July 06, 2007 - 09:35 pm: | |
I know. It was so damned good, I just couldn't help it! |
Harry Simenon
Unity Member
Post Number:
1616
Registered: 10-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, July 08, 2007 - 10:34 am: | |
Sure Bill, but that does not mean that all later versions are improvements.
Sometimes a later version can indeed be an improvement, but all too often it is just a tasteless ripp-off of something old, without adding something new. A translated version is not a new version of a story of-course.
If you hear the rip-off version of the story first, you might still apreciate it, but not if you had heard 15 better versions of it before. |
Allen Parker
Awareness Member
Post Number:
12
Registered: 06-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, July 09, 2007 - 09:43 am: | |
Don't copyright it. Publishers do care whether it has been registered.
First, once sold to a publisher, it will undergo countless changes and modifications so that what you protected does not properly represent what is being offered to the public.
Second, the date of copyright will be significantly stale before you are ready for the publisher to release the book. Many contests are date specific. If the date is a year or more old, you have lost the ability to submit to those contests, effectively losing potential support and visibility for the book.
Lastly, it typically the job of the publisher to handle that. They are the ones who stand to lose, along with you, if someone steals from the book.
Publishers have no reason to steal from you. You have all the backup files, editing notes, voice, and etc to prove you wrote the story. Stealing from you would profit nothing. You are trying to be protected from people stealing the public ready book, produced and sent out by the publisher.
With writers, they have the grapes, not the wine.
www.allenparker.net
Nudist Guy and Yankee Gal
available from Authors Ink Books at www.authorsinkbooks.com
Buy two, they're not fattening. |
LA
Unity Member
Post Number:
2248
Registered: 12-2001
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, July 09, 2007 - 06:53 pm: | |
"SOME publishers care, Gloria. Why they would be angry enough to cancel a contract because the writer already had their book copyrighted seems strange to me."
Shocking though it may be, Allen summed it up very succinctly, Gloria. (ha ha! Hugs, Allen.) That date means a tremendous amount in regards to saleability even to the general public. It's very tough to market a book as "New Release" and then they look inside and see a date from 2, 3, or even more years previous. Many book buyers are so fad-driven, they do look at that.
The contest stuff Allen covered is very correct. That date means a huge amount. If you are really concerned, get a printed copy, or a copy burned to CD, and mail it to yourself. Spend the big bucks and priority mail it, asking the postal worker to put one of those spiffy blue sticker over the flap, ensuring an added "seal" to the envelope to prove it hasn't been opened. That is all that is truly necessary to prove that you wrote the work in question.
LA
New Releases: Joyce Sterling Scarbrough: DIFFERENT ROADS. Elura Coren: JADED. Allen Parker: NUDIST GUY & YANKEE GAL |
Stephen Lodge
Wisdom Member
Post Number:
552
Registered: 06-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, July 09, 2007 - 08:59 pm: | |
What's the big deal. If the publisher's smart, they will make the copyright date in the book the same as the year of release. No reader, contest, etc. is ever going to ask to see the original copyright form.
http://www.stephenlodge.com
Novels by Stephen Lodge:
"Charley Sunday's Texas Outfit!"
"Nickel-Plated Dream"
"Shadows of Eagles"
|
Harry Simenon
Unity Member
Post Number:
1624
Registered: 10-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, July 12, 2007 - 01:27 pm: | |
Economically 14 years seems te be the ideal length of copyright:
http://www.boingboing.net/2007/07/12/economist_calculates.html
"Rufus Pollock, a PhD candidate in economics at Cambridge University, has just released "Forever Minus a Day? Some Theory and Empirics of Optimal Copyright," a brilliant new paper on the economically optimal term of copyright. He's presenting it in Berlin this week, but it's already online. Here's the abstract:
The optimal level for copyright has been a matter for extensive debate over the last decade. This paper contributes several new results on this issue divided into two parts. In the first, a parsimonious theoretical model is used to prove several novel propositions about the optimal level of protection. Specifically, we demonstrate that (a) optimal copyright falls as the costs of production go down (for example as a result of digitization) and that (b) the optimal level of copyright will, in general, fall over time. The second part of the paper focuses on the specific case of copyright term. Using a simple model we characterise optimal term as a function of a few key parameters. We estimate this function using a combination of new and existing data on recordings and books and find an optimal term of around fourteen years. This is substantially shorter than any current copyright term and implies that existing copyright terms are too long."
I would love it if I need to worry about copyrights one day... |
Fred Dungan
Unity Member
Post Number:
1951
Registered: 10-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, July 14, 2007 - 12:32 am: | |
"existing copyright terms are too long." You can say that again! The Millennium Copyright Act was the result of lobbying by Michael Eisner to keep Mickey Mouse from breaking out of Disney's clutches and going public. My goodness, that poor rodent is over 80 and they still won't let him retire. Hasn't he made them enough money? Must they squeeze the last drop of blood from his aging body? I heard they used cryogenics to freeze Walt and have placed him in cold storage until they can figure out a way to make more money from him. I, myself, am staunchly in favor of freeing childhood heroes Mickey and Walt by lessening the copyright to ten years, maximum. If you have not recouped your investment by then, you need financial counseling more than you need a copyright.
http://www.fdungan.com/duke.htm |
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