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H.B.Marcus (Unregistered Guest)
Work-in-progress guest
Posted From: 67.20.102.28
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 11, 2003 - 09:09 am: |   |
Well golly gee whillickers Jennifer and Violet.
I just stopped by to give all the 'dissed' authors from PA news they may not have access to. But what do I find in my positive thread? I see how these things get started. Blow it off. It's probably me that got the negative ball rolling by slamming Brenda Bailey.
I've heard of accidents in the PA system before and I'm no stranger to them myself. When CRISPY came out people complained that there were only two thirds of the book there. Somebody goofed obviously. I contacted PA and they sent out new copies to all at PA's expense. The point is that PA worked with me to correct that problem.
Let's address this area; I've heard the Fred Dungan case before and I would have handled it differently. No amount of editing in the world is going to matter when the publisher has to format your manuscript to book form. Things screw up sometimes and it becomes your job to correct the situation. You have to understand that PA pays for your cover art, editing, and printing before they see dime one. There has to come a point where the production becomes a loss. An adversative approach in my opinion is not the way to handle the situation. I work with PA to solve problems, which sometimes means calling their office and getting one person in that area to work on the problem for me. I try to be more appreciative than an annoyance because I need them when I need special help. A confrontation on a publicly viewed message board is not the way I would handle it. But some people do, and in doing so they become more liability than asset, which is logically where the cooperation ends.
And now the news, but first a word from Kraft.
PA announced by email today some rather fantastic news that I will now relay in a paraphrased manner: They will soon launch a showcase website for all of their authors, called PublishedAuthors.net. It will give individual web pages to each and every author, highlighting them and their books. The content of these pages will be edited by the author individually, and password protected. Not only that, but it will also give every author their own e-mail address, @publishedauthors.net. This innovative new service will be free, of course, as you have come to expect from PublishAmerica.
And now I should point out something I saw coming when I first signed with PA: More than 50 new authors contact them every day, hoping to join PublishAmerica. That's more than 12,000 hopefuls per year. At least 80 percent of them never make it to the "published author" status, because they don't pass the acquisitions process, but that does not seem to discourage anyone from submitting their work to them in ever growing, and frankly astonishing, numbers. They read every single submission before they accept or refuse.
So what do those numbers mean to you? It's simple as I've said before. PA books are getting in everywhere these days. More brick and mortor bookstores are carrying our books than ever before. They are becoming so large and so well known that they frankly can't take everyone (as some people have accused them of). And now they will be more strict with their acquisitions. In my opinion it will get harder to be published by PA in the near future. Any questions of legitimacy and prestige will vanish from the gossip and opinions, and we will be on the inside looking out. |
Todd Hunter
Wisdom Member
Post Number:
678
Registered: 02-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 11, 2003 - 03:56 pm: | |
F.E., I read those posts (because I'm a lurker, as we all know) on the PA board, and as I've corresponded with Larry in the past, I had no reason to doubt the validity of his post...
I will say this, I haven't seen a lot of action (as in books leaving) in the local bookstores for Hillary's book...whether that's a gauge, who knows?
I agree with HB (gasp), cooperation is often the best method in which to get problems worked out. However, it works both ways. When one party is unwilling to work with the other (regardless of the direction), that's rather sad.
I'm curious about this new web-ring type deal they have going on. Will the content be policed as is the message board? Will the authors who have books published with other publishers be able to promote those books as well? Just curious (of course, given PA's opinion of me, I doubt I'll be given one of these websites (not that I'd want to give up my current one anyway) in the first place).
Closing down my comments, as I've probably said too much as it is (because I, like Jenn, don't want to see this thing spiral downwards again)... |
Fred Dungan
Hsympothai Member
Post Number:
327
Registered: 10-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 11, 2003 - 06:03 pm: | |
Jenn,
No heart? I'm sorry for you. Please allow me to apologize for having spoiled your nice day with my petty problem.
Violet,
Read the above and multiply by three.
HB,
It's nice to see your website up and running. I like the changes you made to it. We agree about most things, but not about Publish America. They don't keep their word. While that might not matter to Jennifer and Violet, it is important to me. As for the adversarial relationship, it began when Publish America deleted my posts, banned me from their message board, and removed my book from publication. They don't reply to my emails. Nor have they paid me my royalties. Publish America seeks capitulation rather than cooperation from writers. They are not above using strongarm tactics. May those conniving corporate criminals roast in hell.
How easily some of us seem to forget. I am here to remind you that Publish America is still out there destroying the hopes and dreams of novice writers. If you choose to ignore my warning and make a pact with the devil, it is your God-given right to do so.
http://www.fdungan.com/bushwhacked.htm
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victoria (Unregistered Guest)
Work-in-progress guest
Posted From: 24.60.187.36
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 11, 2003 - 06:46 pm: | |
About the Hillary Clinton book...the publisher made back the advance it paid her (and note that a book doesn't have to earn out its advance in order to become profitable) before the book was even released, because pre-orders were so high. So high, in fact, that it had to go back to print prior to the pub date. I too thought the publisher might lose its shirt on this book, because the advance was so bloated, but this isn't the case. It's been the subject of quite a bit of discussion and coverage in the various publishing industry newsletters I subscribe to.
I'm not surprised to hear that PA is starting to do more turning away of manuscripts--I imagine they must get a lot of submissions. Not to be untrusting, however, but I'm just a wee bit skeptical about that 80% rejection figure--which, if true, kind of contradicts the sunny promise on PA's information page, "PublishAmerica puts its trust in the big league of unknown authors". If you start rejecting so many manuscripts, aren't you acting an awful lot like the evil old dinosaur commercial houses that are so cruelly excluding new authors, and for which you're supposed to be the antidote? There's a fundamental paradox here. Either you're inclusive or exclusive. As a publisher, you can't be both.
Even if the rejection rate is that high, it's still not really rigorous enough to raise PA's legitimacy profile. Much less than 10% of what's written is actually publishable (anyone who has ever looked at a publisher's slush pile will confirm that). For legitimacy as a publisher, you need something like a 96% rejection rate. And you need to publish a lot fewer books
- Victoria
Writer Beware
http://www.sfwa.org/beware/ |
HBMarcus (Unregistered Guest)
Work-in-progress guest
Posted From: 67.20.102.28
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 12, 2003 - 12:26 am: | |
Victoria-
Please believe that I want to keep this a positive thread. I feel the downward spiral coming on though. Fred and Todd did not have a good relationship with PA. I don't think fingerpointing is anything but moot now that it's in the past. Time to move on and quit getting it out of your system. But Victoria, your obvious prods, no matter how obscured, to find fault with PA and its system in any way, shape, or form has been noted...for years. Please stop. I'm asking you this time as opposed to screaming insults. What do you have to gain at the cost of the reputation and legitimacy of people you haven't even taken the time to know? You're published. How does closing the door behind you do the job your site claims? Times and policies have changed. Move on to some real predators out there as mentioned earlier. That is the good fight.
Things at PA improve all the time. I know things you don't know and it's been that way for a long time. I don't show up at their staff meetings but I do what I can for authors who need help. I bring up problems in the proper forum and suggest improvements.
You know what the real kick here is? I'm not on their payroll. I don't get anything for what I do for PA. That may be hard for a lot of people to grasp in today's society, but it's the truth. You people know me well enough to realize I'm not some blind idiot ready to follow Applewhite and his folloers to meet the aliens on Haley's comet.
I have a question for you all; what makes a good high school football team?
I've never been a jock, or even an athletic supporter, but I do know people. I know what makes them work, tick, or go off. All I can tell you is that what you've shown me on this thread works in my favor. I see the support and I see the opposition. There are two camps here. One is positive and the other is negative. Both opposing opinions in what I wanted to be a positive thread. Can you say something positive about PA? How about the part where you got your foot in the door with a new publisher before the door closed. That was seriously like buying Microsoft or Walmart stock on day one. If you made origami with your stock and let the cat play with it until it was a mess, I'm sorry.
Since that time things have changed a lot and they will continue to change. I know what's ahead. I took my work that seriously when a sham of an agent handed me the contract. I wasn't blinded by what I was told. I did the homework and signed it as you all did. The only difference is me. My engine works with a different firing pattern. When I worked for a new trucking company years ago I dragged the owner kicking and screaming from one freelance truck to a yearly million dollar contract and five trucks. Is the football team question beginning to make sense yet?
The point is that when you're digging your way through life you can either find faults or find gold. (Jeepers, you can quote me on that) I think the negatve approach makes people look the other way unless you have a solid positive platform. Everyone has their own Baileys to bare. (no, I didn't misspell that) Going after a publisher that is going up is a reach you don't have. It leaves you as someone with sour grapes and nobody will care. You can bang your head against the wall while PA, its authors, and I make the wall thicker.
Do you have an answer for my question yet? |
Todd Hunter
Wisdom Member
Post Number:
681
Registered: 02-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 12, 2003 - 05:40 am: | |
"what makes a good high school football team?"
Let's see...I've never been a jock...so I'll try answering this question to the best of my ability.
First, you have to have good players. They must know how to play the game, have the ability to do so, and the coach of the team must work with them to improve their abilities. They have to work hard at what they're doing.
Second, you have to have good coaches. As mentioned before, they must work with the players to improve their abilities. However, they also need to work with the talent they have in order to make the team work. Placing a decent kicker in at a wide receiver position does neither the player, the coach, nor the team any good. As well, they must be able to choose their plays which help the team achieve the best success possible. If the coach decides that the team is only going to run the football, and only straight up the middle, the team isn't going to succeed. If a player (in this situation) recommends to the coach that "maybe we should throw the ball", the response of the coach should not be "I'm the coach, you listen to me or you're not on the team anymore".
Third, a good team is boosted by fans. There are many types of fans out there. There are the casual fans, interested simply because of curiosity, and who normally fall away easily. There are the middle-of-the-road fans, who are interested, but if the team isn't worth watching, they go home (but if they find the team is stellar, will stay). Then there are the die-hard fans, those fans who will stick with a team, regardless of how poorly they're doing (Detroit Tigers, anyone? ;-P ). Fans propel the team, and give the players incentive to do even better...
Hopefully those were some decent answers...
*****
"Todd did not have a good relationship with PA"
You know, it's funny...
The big kicker here is, the only problems I've ever had with PA are the fact they wouldn't listen when I was relaying customer feedback on my price (which doesn't make much sense, because they've lowered other prices), and the fact they booted me off the board when I dared question something one of their Infocenter's said about B&N (based on a sheet from corporate I was given at the store which directly contradicted the statement). Other than that, I've never had a problem. The book came in fine, and looked good. It had few, if any, errors (because I went through it with a fine-toothed comb during the production process). And sales have been adequate, considering the efforts I've had to go through to get them that way. Most of my questions have been answered in a satisfactory fashion, though sometimes it takes a little longer than others to get a response (which with the number of questions they probably get, is understandable).
So, where does it come up that I don't have a good relationship with PA? They still answer the occassional (sp) e-mail I send to their support personnel. And they still take my money when I order books (and we'll be finding out today whether that holds true). I've never asked to be released from my contract, and won't ask for it. My book is out, and available, so I'm making the best of it...I still promote my book, and in some instances, more than when it first came out. Exactly where this translates into a "poor relationship", I'll never know. I do know, my second book will be going somewhere else. If the fact I'm going somewhere else with my second book dictates a poor relationship, then so be it, I suppose. But I'm simply looking at it from a business perspective, because my relationship with my publisher needs to be a business relationship, otherwise one loses the perspective needed to successful run their business (in this case, writing and selling books).
Through my business perspective, I see customer satisfaction as #1. If the customer is unsatisfied with my book because of the price they had to pay, then the risk is high they won't be back next time. Thus, the reason behind my pricing crusade comes into focus...
But I've figured out ways around the $16.95 list price before, and I keep finding new ways every day...find a problem, find a solution...
(Trying to keep it positive, and hopefully I'm succeeding (sp)) |
Laurel Johnson
Unity Member
Post Number:
2269
Registered: 01-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 12, 2003 - 05:49 am: | |
Well I am dee-lighted to take HB's analogy one step further and use myself as an example.
By analogy I mean "doing all you can to help others without being paid for your labors and digging to find gold instead of faults."
I review books for Midwest Book Review. 90% of the books I review are POD or self-published books. I read and review SO MANY books that I no longer have time to do my own writing. I do not get paid for my reviews. Every day ALL day I dig for GOLD amongst these gems, written mostly by writers who are SO GOOD but generally unknown. It gives me great pleasure to read and review such books. If it did not, I would not do it FOR FREE.
Digging for gold. Not finding fault. And doing it for free.
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F.E. Mazur (Unregistered Guest)
Work-in-progress guest
Posted From: 171.75.100.180
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 12, 2003 - 10:00 am: | |
"For legitimacy as a publisher, you need ... to publish a lot fewer books." — Victoria
# of Volumes on Amazon
PA & AmErica House 2600+
Random House 2400+
Tor 3600+
Eos 700+ (Eos is the SF/Fantasy Division of Harper Collins)
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HBMarcus (Unregistered Guest)
Work-in-progress guest
Posted From: 24.50.227.67
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 12, 2003 - 10:23 am: | |
Jeepers Laurel! When are your going to review THE JOE SCHMOE SHOW? There be platinum in them thar hills!
Todd, I see your obvious slant toward the writer/publisher relationship. I know you thought that's what I wanted to hear but the question was a little more straight forward and unrelated than that. You did manage to cover just about every possible contingency to formulate a correct answer. Now which part of your answer is correct?
You can have star players who make the plays every time. You can have a coach that whips the team into a mean, lean, scoring machine. You can have fans who never miss a game. I actually came here because I left the answer dangle. I was going to explain it but JEEZE! You're having so much fun with it. Would it surprise you if I said it was one simple word?
After your first answer you said something that makes me think my answer will be a help in everything you do from now on if you understand what I'm talking about. Without answering the question I can only surmise that Laurel really has a grasp on the concept without caring about the question.
Actually the answer is on the PA board in a joke about me. You strike me as a person who loves a challenge and coming up with the correct solution at any cost. I actually think you enjoyed your answers. Give it hell again and I'll give you the answer next time. |
Sheila Schmidt
Hsympothai Member
Post Number:
316
Registered: 05-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 12, 2003 - 12:00 pm: | |
Gee, Todd, are you excited or what?? |
HBMarcus (Unregistered Guest)
Work-in-progress guest
Posted From: 24.50.227.67
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 12, 2003 - 01:25 pm: | |
THAT'S THE ONE!
Gee, it was just a matter of time, huh? Until this point the attempt at keeping this entire thread positive had not slumped into insulting ignorance. You would think the lack of posting for two days other than this thread might have been a clue. That's the predatory predictability I was wrong for thinking I could help with the right attitude on this site. Oh well. If negativity on a platform of negativity is what people post here for, then I was wrong for thinking I could make a dent.
Well I have better things to do with my time than attempt to draw interest and thought here. If I can put away the claws I figured anyone could. I'm sorry for having wasted everyone's time. |
Jan Fields
Wisdom Member
Post Number:
549
Registered: 09-2001
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 12, 2003 - 01:52 pm: | |
Excuse me, Sheila's quip at your condescending tone toward Todd is proof of a "platform of negativity?" You must really really really really really have been hoping someone would get "negative" to jump on that one.
Condescension isn't negative but quips are?
Oh...and because I know you don't know. If you register on this site, there are more boards about writing and chitchat and they are quite active. Unfortunately CE had to do that -- making some boards require registration -- so we could have some place to talk without trolls. But all you have to do is register -- no secret handshake or bloodbrothers bit. I just thought I would share that since I know you've remarked before that we only get action here when you post. So...if you just stopped by to increase conversation -- thanks for the thought but really, conversation goes on here all the time. Though you are always welcome to join in -- everyone is. But, you'll probably have to be a little less delicate if one quip gets you all in a tizzy -- we can be a quippy bunch.
Jan |
Laurel Johnson
Unity Member
Post Number:
2272
Registered: 01-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 12, 2003 - 02:34 pm: | |
The Mindsight Forum, Word Smithery and Hrothgar's Mead Hall also get quite a lot of traffic.
Digging for gold. Not finding fault. And doing it for free. |
Victoria (Unregistered Guest)
Work-in-progress guest
Posted From: 24.60.187.36
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 12, 2003 - 03:33 pm: | |
About book numbers...it's not accurate to compare publishers based on physical numbers of books alone. Random House and Tor and Eos have been in business for some years longer than PA, and have thus had more time to publish books. Also, the numbers for commercial publishers include two or three editions of the same book (not for all books, but for many)--hardcover, trade paperback, and/or mass market.
It's more accurate to compare publishing numbers by month. Eos, for instance, puts out between 3 and 6 books monthly, of which only two or three are being published for the first time (the rest are reprints). Tor puts out up to 20 books a month, of which anywhere between 2 and 10 are being published for the first time (and often some of these are 1st US editions of UK books). PA puts out--what, 100 or so a month? All of them first-time publications.
HB, you asked me a civil question, and I'll give you a straight answer. I'm a writers' advocate. I see it as my job to warn writers about the pitfalls they may face in the quest to become published, and about things that can harm, cheat, or disappoint them. I have no quarrel whatever with PA's mission or with its basic business model; for a writer who knows what he's doing and has a good grasp of what PA provides, it can be a reasonable choice. What I do have a problem with is the way PA encourages writers to see its business practices as commercial industry standard, and to view PA as an alternative to commercial publishing. PA is certainly an attractive alternative to the fly-by-night amateur independents and the fee-charging self-publishing services--but it's not an alternative to commercial publishing, which in almost every respect functions according to a different business model.
By declaring that it's not a POD, by telling authors its contract is industry standard, by glossing over the challenges that its high book prices and non-returnability pose for authors, by claiming for itself the hard work of its authors (yes, PA authors have been on TV and radio, and their books are in thousands of stores--but it wasn't PA that got them there), and above all by encouraging authors to think that all independent publishers function more or less the way that PA does, I think that PA seriously misrepresents itself--to the detriment of the inexperienced writers who make up a large part of its submissions pool.
This is why I continue to speak out about PA (and continue to be skeptical about its new services): because there is another side to the picture, and I think writers who can use the information ought to have it. I'm not trying to impugn anyone's personal reputation. Writers are free to ignore me, and I know that many do. I admit I do needle PA a bit--but I've been on the receiving end a time or two.
- Victoria
Writer Beware
http://www.sfwa.org/beware/ |
Todd Hunter
Wisdom Member
Post Number:
685
Registered: 02-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 12, 2003 - 04:27 pm: | |
Excited doesn't begin to describe my emotions, Sheila... ;-)
You asked the question, HB...I gave the answer to the best of my ability. I'm not sure what type of "obvious slant" one would see in my answer, although being as how I'm a writer, and not a publisher, I imagine any slant I would have would be on the side of the writer...
"I know you thought that's what I wanted to hear..."
Since the question asked what makes a good football team, I figured you wanted to know our thoughts...if that wasn't what you wanted, then maybe the question should have been rephrased? Who knows?
"You can have star players who make the plays every time."
Ah, but there are many teams who have star players, but can't do squat. You can have a star running back, but if your offensive line can't hold off the defense, it's not going to go well. You can have a star quarterback, but if your receivers are all thumbs...well, I could go on, but I think the point is made.
Anyway, if your answer has to do with helping other authors, I already do that, and have done that (in fact, if you recall, you yourself were one of the recipients). My newsletter trucks on, and though I've reduced the number of books I plug, I still do (though I need to build up some cash reserves, given this new order I just placed today, so it may be a month or two before I'm able to give a proper plug for another new author)...
But anywho, sorry if my answers (and Sheila's comical quip) got everyone in such a fit...that wasn't my intent...just answering the questions offered...
But to add onto some of the other answers, there are plenty of conversations which go on around here, and many of them remain positive... |
Gloria Marlow
Hsympothai Member
Post Number:
420
Registered: 04-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 12, 2003 - 07:40 pm: | |
Maybe the answer is that high school football players don't get paid...and don't expect to. They play for the love of the game and the "leg up" it gives them into the real world of college football and eventually the pros.
Which is fine and good. I try to look at my PA experience the same way...I did learn things I didn't know, because I listened to people like the ones here who know more about writing and publishing than I do. I also know that if I hadn't ever gotten up the nerve to have my first book published, no matter who published it, and had other people read and like it, I would never have written any others. I used to just have bits and pieces of stories stuffed in drawers and now I tend to want to finish them. ( although I don't feel that PA publishing my book proved I could write, because although they may have one now, a few years ago, they didn't have any kind of stringent, review process for new books that I can tell)
Although, even a good football player wants to move ahead. A better team, bigger contract, etc. Not every player fits on every team. It's all a matter of finding what's right for you.
Gloria |
C. E. Winterland
Mindsight Moderator
Post Number:
1154
Registered: 06-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 12, 2003 - 10:23 pm: | |
Victoria,
Thought I'd mention that I met Teresa Nielsen Hayden today. I was quite nervous (she was hosting the critique session I was part of), until after the session we got to chatting, and we came to realize that we kind of knew each other already... through the Mindsight Forum oddly enough 
She didn't specifically request it, but I'll convey a hello from her to you.
It seems it's a small world afterall.
If you were here, I'd have sprung for that goblet of wine I've been promising you for some years now. Oh... I'm at the Rocky Mountain Fiction Writers Conference... forgot to mention
Sorry to hijack the thread... now back to the regularly scheduled mud wrestling match... hehehe... oops... I didn't say that did I? Sorry, must be the tongue loosener talking...
CEW |
HB freakin' Marcus (Unregistered Guest)
Work-in-progress guest
Posted From: 67.20.102.58
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 13, 2003 - 03:31 am: | |
Good lord CEW, is that what you really want on your site?
Let me tell you all something rather personal. A few years back my company moved out of state leaving me high and dry. The experience made me look for a budding company that wouldn’t treat me as such. WRONG!!! It happened again. That time I took a nobody who drove truck and turned him into a trucking company. Who cares if he ran it into the ground. A month after I was fired for a flat tire. Boo hoo me.
You know what? Such is fucking life people. You’ll have that. I’m sure you’ve been told.
BUT, while that was going on I wrote a story. It wasn’t anything great. It was about three pages front and back on an electronic typewriter. It was a story I put together while I was traveling out west to buy an airplane kit. When I got home I wrote the story down. I showed it to my wife and some of my family. My mother suggested that if I expanded it to a larger story that it might make a good book. Before I knew it she had spent a butt-load of money on a computer to let me put it together easily. Let me tell you, that was far greater than any electronic typewriter could ever do.
In no time at all I had finished the story in book form and everyone loved it. Then I moved on into writing some crap. My mother told me it was crap. I hit delete and never looked back. Then I wrote something called IN THE DUMPS about truck driving because my mother told me to write something I know. Well, she didn’t like that either. It had it’s moments but there were two characters in that story I couldn’t get out of my mind for months.
I went at it again with the characters Spider and Smokey in mind. They were fun people I made from all the idiots and burn-outs I worked with in rock bands in the eighties. That’s how I came up with CRISPY. Everyone including my mother loved it. So I was pushed at that point to pursue being published by friends and family. But first I wanted to see if I would be able to top it. I ended up writing three stories in the Spider and Smokey saga. That was over three years ago.
I took my least best work at the time, CRISPY, and had it published knowing that each book to be released would be one step better than the latter. This was what my mother told me to do. In the meantime I looked at the industry and the egos and the unknown talent that flounders out there. I joined PA and saw egos instructing the uninformed in the wrong directions. I saw people believing the fakes on the internet and making their decisions based on what they thought was a voice of experience.
I FLIPPED! I attacked those scumbags that were coaxing other’s under their wing and exposed them for the useless self-serving crap that they were. Right away my wife said: “Good lord! You can’t do that!” I told her that nobody else is volunteering for the job. Eventually my mother got wind of the turmoil I was causing. At the same time she was shaking her head at me and PA was upset, I was notified that a college in Tennessee was taking transcripts of my blastings, and putting them on a board for all to see.
That point was where my mother didn’t want to know what I was saying. In the case where I might go too far and she would get wind of it, she would let me know.
Well, okay, I’ve spent a long time trying to be restrained and calm. I can look angry and do a lot of damage. But I never wanted my mother to be embarrassed by something I said. But then again we’re talking about someone who could make ME feel uncomfortable by telling a joke about a dick.
Well people, after almost a week of suffering my mother died tonight.
Big deal, huh?
I don’t think so. The gloves came off for a few people around here. For a few weeks I’ve been more than nice to everybody. That time has passed and will never come again. People seem to think they have some dirt on me they don’t mind displaying. OOOOPS! Wrong asshole to mess with!
Hi Sheila, you’ve actually been saved from me in the past. Can you believe it? I actually had a freaking limit. What was your book, Pregnant and Blown Off? WHERE I COME FROM THAT’S CALLED SLUTTY AND DUMPED!!! Should I go on? Has your former boyfriend penned his book about his experience with you yet? I’m sure his insight into your one-sided relationship would breed: SCREWED AND BOLTED –The thing that wouldn’t shut up!
Oh wait, I’m forgetting your little troll doll that shows up whenever you’re in trouble. What’s that little uni-brow’s name? Is it Jan Fields? Oh yes, now I remember. That’s the person who everyone darts to ignore. HEY YOU SELF-INDULGENT PIECE OF CRAP! HAS IT EVER OCCURRED TO YOU TO JUST SHUT UP! Well of course not. That would be beneath you to not have an opinion no matter how SUCK-UP it was with your fellow bitchers. GOT MEN? Yeah right! At least not one who is allowed to talk.
So there it is Asswipes. Go ahead and put that in your file on my quotes, pictures, and all the other shit. You havn't even pissed me off yet! Wanna go for it? Oh, of course, you can't help yourselves. That's just the sort of shrill annoyance that you can't help but be.
MAKE NO MISTAKE FOLKS!
HB IS BACK AND BADDER THAN EVER!
JUST FUCKING TRY ME NOW! |
Todd Hunter
Wisdom Member
Post Number:
691
Registered: 02-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 13, 2003 - 04:30 am: | |
Sorry to hear about your mother, HB...
I've been there...
Coming off over 11 years of experience, however,
I'll let you know...all the vented anger in the world
doesn't make the pain any better... |
Gloria Marlow
Hsympothai Member
Post Number:
421
Registered: 04-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 13, 2003 - 06:11 am: | |
HB,
I'm sorry about your mom. Like yours, my mom is the one who most encourages me to write. I could say all kinds of things that are meant to comfort you, but I can't imagine that any of them would. So, I'll just keep you and your family in my prayers.
Gloria
(Message edited by gloria on September 13, 2003)
(Message edited by gloria on September 13, 2003) |
Jan Fields
Wisdom Member
Post Number:
550
Registered: 09-2001
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 13, 2003 - 07:43 am: | |
I am sorry to hear about your mother. A few years ago, my own mother died after being misdiagnosed with asthma that turned out to be lung cancer. Once the correct diagnosis was made, it was too late to do anything. I moved in to her house to care for her because her care required more than my Dad could do -- after a series of small strokes her wasn't exactly at the top of his game either.
The cancer had moved to my mom's brain. I watched an incredibly sharp woman who loved to read lose her ability to read first -- the cancer was attacking her language center. The words on the page didn't make sense anymore. I'll never forget how that broke her heart since she loved to read. I began reading to her every day. Then she lost the ability to understand what was said to her. She would watch cartoons since you didn't have to understand them for them to be enjoyable. She could still talk but when you spoke to her, she couldn't understand it. Eventually, she lost it all. Watching her killed by cancer was like trying to catch sunlight in my hands.
When mom died, I was furious. Furious at hospitals. Furious at the church. Furious at God. The cancer took what was most important to her -- her mind -- in little bits at a time so she could appreciate the horror of it every single day. My mom had been in pain much of her life from physical issues so she was not afraid of pain -- so the attack went after that which terrified her most.
I can understand your fury.
It was misdirected, of course, as most of your fury is. But I am sorry to hear about your mom. I cannot know how you feel because your experience is your alone -- but I do know how I felt. It was one of the most horrible times of my life.
Right after she died, I would dream that she was still alive -- sick but getting better -- in the dream, I would walk into the kitchen and she would be at the counter making coffee. I would be so happy, think the death/the funeral was all a bad dream and she *was* getting better. I would run to her and hug her...I could feel how thin she was and how delicate her bones felt...then I would wake up and she was still gone. It doesn't get easier for a long long time...and even now the pain can be as fresh as the day she died. I am sorry for all the days you have ahead that will hurt.
Jan |
Violet Towe
Wandering Member
Post Number:
214
Registered: 03-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 13, 2003 - 07:54 am: | |
HB, I'm sorry to hear about your mother. My mom is still alive, at 94 almost 95 years, but I know before long she too will join those who has gone on to whatever there is to go on to.
My dad passed away some 30 odd years ago, yet, even now in my memory, I still see him. Memories, they're like a movie of sorts, playing over in our minds eye allowing us to revisit those who are no longer with us. Its been said many times, as long as one person remembers the person who passed away they are still with us.
So HB, keep those memories of your mother alive and in some small way she will remain with you as my daddy has with me, as I'm sure so many other people can tell you as well, in some small way our loved ones are still with us.
Violet |
Nancy Mehl
Mindsight Moderator
Post Number:
1347
Registered: 08-2001
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 13, 2003 - 08:08 am: | |
HB,
I'm so sorry about your mom. I lost my mom back in 1984. She was only 54. Although she was in the hospital for something minor (we thought) she passed away suddenly the morning after she arrived. I wasn't there. The doctors told me that she had been calling for me up until she died. That's something I've had to live with for the last 20 years. In fact, our last conversation ended in an argument I'll regret the rest of my life.
I think they gave her the wrong medicine. She had breathing problems and wasn't supposed to get pain medication since it could make it harder for her to breathe. I think they gave her some. I should have asked for an autopsy - but just couldn't stand to have her body mutilated. Dumb, I know. But at the time you're experiencing something like that, you don't think clearly.
The final blow was to get the death certificate that listed her death as a suicide. I came unglued and called the medical examiner. His explanation was that based on her age, maritial status, etc., that the probability was...blah, blah, blah. Her doctor promised to get the situation corrected - but he never did. My only recourse was to make my son promise to tell his children that their great-grandmother didn't commit suicide. My mom would be horrified.
I plan to take some of my family history and write it down for future generations. I'm hoping it won't be lost that way. And I intend to write about my mother - how wonderful she was in so many ways - and the truth about her death.
As a writer, someday you may want to do the same for your mom.
You're in my prayers.
Nancy |
Laurel Johnson
Unity Member
Post Number:
2274
Registered: 01-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 13, 2003 - 08:41 am: | |
OH, HB, I am so sorry to hear about your mother. I also lost my mother much too young. I had so hoped she would live long enough to see my books published because she was my number one encourager from childhood on.
I tend to be a big fat baby so take such things too hard. I try to honor her memory and everything she did for me in every way I can. Every book I write is with her in mind. And I try to pattern my interactions with everyone after the way she treated others in life.
I'm sorry. You will be on my mind and in my prayers because I know how tough this is.
Laurel |
Claudia Turner VanLydegraf
Mindsight Moderator
Post Number:
622
Registered: 06-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 13, 2003 - 09:39 am: | |
HB,
I lost both of my parents before I was 23 years old. From one person who has been there a very long time ago, take one step at a time and CHERISH THE MEMORIES. My parents have both been gone from me for almost 40 years now, and the biggest thing I regret and still can't get around, even today, is that I NEVER got to know them as friends and people, only as parents. That is the biggest loss in the world. At least you have had them with you for some time and get to know your Mother as a friend as well as someone who loved you unconditionally as a parent. Cherish the many things about her that you love and respect and NEVER forget what made her the special person that she was to you.
You didn't say anything about your Father, so I don't know if he is still with you or not, but if he is, take some of that pain and go to be with him for a while. He needs you more than ever now. And you need him. Family is one thing in your life that you can never replace, no matter how you try or how many miles and ways you search. Remember all that was good and you will grow from it. Give your heart room to expand and for god's sake, CRY!! Tears will help, they won't take everything away, but they will help put the sadness and loss all in its proper place.
But, please, don't be angry at us, here. We are all sorry about this happening to you, and want to offer whatever bits and pieces that we can to help make this time easier for you. Please don't bite the hands that are offered to you. We all understand this reaction, and will gladly give you time to vent and heal, but please remember that the hands that are offered are given in peace, friendship, and concern, not as a slap.
Claudia |
HBMarcus (Unregistered Guest)
Work-in-progress guest
Posted From: 67.20.102.28
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 13, 2003 - 09:54 am: | |
Jesus God! I tell everyone I no longer have anyone to answer to. I announce that I have become the Ronco Slam-O-Matic since my words no longer have anyone to embarrass. BUT WHAT DO YOU PEOPLE FREAKIN' DO?
Well, maybe this thread got to be positive after all. What can I say? I thank you all. |
Kevin P. Grover
Wisdom Member
Post Number:
913
Registered: 03-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 13, 2003 - 10:17 am: | |
HB,
From someone who knows where you're coming from...my thoughts are with you. I lost my mother two years ago. Similar to what you mentioned in your case (although a bit more severe in mine), she never even blinked an eye to suggest that she was proud of the fact that I had accomplished anything.
My best hopes for your success. From what I've heard, your works are very good. I only wish I had the time to peruse them and find out personally.
Yours,
Kevin
www.winterwolfpublishing.com |
victoria (Unregistered Guest)
Work-in-progress guest
Posted From: 24.60.187.36
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 13, 2003 - 10:29 am: | |
HB, I'm so sorry for the loss of your mother. My mother is my rock; I don't know what I'll do when she's gone. I can only imagine the pain you're in right now. Sympathies.
- Victoria
Writer Beware
http://www.sfwa.org/beware/ |
C. E. Winterland
Mindsight Moderator
Post Number:
1158
Registered: 06-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 13, 2003 - 10:59 am: | |
HB,
No, I don't really want mud wrestling at all, I was a little tippled last night, I'm afraid.
Sorry to hear that your mother has passed away, and like others have said above, keep her memory close as I know you will.
No one here wants to sling mud, and that goes double for me, personally. I look forward to reading the Joe Schmoe Show, as I know it will be good for a lot of chuckles.
Not that I'm trying to convince you, but the folks here are all good people. I tend to look at it the same way I looked at living in NYC - we're all in the same shit, and we will help when we can. That seems to hold very true here at the forum. I got concerned there for a moment when you seemed to be suggesting that you were going to unleash on us again, but I hope that you continue as you have for the last week. It's been good discussions here on this thread for the most part, and that's what we want at the forum.
While you are mourning do what you need to do, crank up a guitar, pound away at the drums, beat up a punching bag, and certainly there is no shortage of venting posts here at the forum. We'll back you and support you if we can, as I hope you've seen at this point.
I know I can speak for us all when I say that we wish you the best.
C. E. Winterland |
Claudia Turner VanLydegraf
Mindsight Moderator
Post Number:
626
Registered: 06-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 13, 2003 - 11:36 am: | |
HB,
As an added thought to my above post, keep your Mother's memory alive for your daughter. One day she might just surprise you and wind up with the love, beauty and best traits of your Mother embedded in her mind and soul. Children often have a special knack of picking up on the very best of those that they have loved and emulating them, and this goes especially true if the person they love, as in a grandmother, is long gone from this world. These lucky children can see with their hearts and feel the love and return it thousand-fold to the waiting world. Keep your Mother's picture near and refer to it often so your daughter knows her. Your Mother is not dead, she is just AWAY for a while, but her love lives on in and through your child.
Claudia
|
Laurel Johnson
Unity Member
Post Number:
2277
Registered: 01-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 13, 2003 - 12:38 pm: | |
Everyone here, including you HB, has had the Ronco Slam-o-matic treatment by experts. We can take it. The main thing to me is that none of us hold up well under the loss of a mother and support person. We need all the support we can get My mother died twenty years ago and I'm still cringing from it. |
Stephanie S. Sawyer
Awareness Member
Post Number:
41
Registered: 08-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 13, 2003 - 05:20 pm: | |
HB: I'm truly sorry for the loss of your mother. It is a pain that cannot be undermined nor totally appreciated until it happens.
And I'm glad you've got a place here to rant and rave about it or simply let it all hang out. We all feel your pain and are truly sorry.
I hope you know, and I believe you do, what a gift you have had in having a mother who has supported and nourished your horizons in writing. That is a gift that will live on.
My mother has not died physically, though our relationship came to a complete death last year when I cut her off completely. Alcohol and it's destructive forces will do that, particularly when it creates bizarre and damaging behavior in the drinker. I was not willing to risk more of that destructive behavior when I went public as a writer and began to be surprised by public outbursts in the name of support. That loss of relationship has been very difficult for me when I have received some very nice feedback in my writing. --
so I'm truly glad for you that your mother was such a nurturer, and that will remain with you always.
I have been accused in the past of being too 'motherly' or out for my chicks in protection, and I hope you won't see or experience my comments here in that fashion. I do truly understand, but not to the depth you are in right now. All I can say is I'm sorry for your loss.
Stephanie |
D.R. Bennett (Unregistered Guest)
Work-in-progress guest
Posted From: 172.192.166.155
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, March 11, 2004 - 10:11 am: | |
Guess What?
PA emailed me and siad they were ready to publish one of my books.
This was my reply:
"I think your service is a bunch of bullshit. No thanks. Go rip off some other poor desperate soul.
- D.R. -"
http://www.literaryagent.2ya.com |
Gloria Marlow
Wisdom Member
Post Number:
616
Registered: 04-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, March 11, 2004 - 10:49 am: | |
D.R.--
Thanks so much for reviving such a horrid thread...
After six months, was there really a need to look up this particular one and post to it? It makes me think you are trying to stir up trouble...pretty obviously.
|
D (Unregistered Guest)
Work-in-progress guest
Posted From: 172.195.132.20
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, March 11, 2004 - 01:24 pm: | |
Gloria,
I am the last one on this thin raft to stir up trouble.
I'm just sick of seeing good writers get taken in by people like PA who absolutely "promise" that you will not have to pay anything to get published.
I'm sick of seeing talented and creative people get the shaft for trying to make something of themselves and their work.
I'm sick of people accusing one another for things that they never intended to do in the first place.
Can't we all just get along?
http://www.drbennett.2ya.com |
|
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