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Mark A. York (Unregistered Guest)
Work-in-progress guest
Posted From: 67.24.75.40
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 23, 2003 - 02:17 pm: |   |
Yes, Mr. Hunter is a case in point. See the aforementioned remarks on presentation online. And really I'm not just being difficult on this for the hell of it, see mine for comparison if desired. Even worse, he has the same handful of PA authors as reviewers plus one. None other; it's classic PA laughed at by legitimate writers warning about PA to no avail. Well, almost none until now. The only saving grace for these thin little books is that after 200+ pages the price shyrockets out of sight. But really, with selling methods like these it won't matter. Tragic, absolutely tragic. |
Laurel Johnson
Unity Member
Post Number:
2364
Registered: 01-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 23, 2003 - 02:53 pm: | |
Yes it is a sad scenario alright. Good thing I did not go into this with the idea that I would be an internationally acclaimed best selling author. 
Acting. Lightning rarely strikes there either. Glad I have no grand expectations as either writer or actor.
The PODs in the Lincoln bookstores are on a table in the front of the store. Mine among them. Lincoln ain't New York, London or Paris, but it's the big duck in Nebraska's bookselling pond so I'm satisfied. It's more than I expected.
As for the reviews....there are two or more authors on this board who were reviewed by Library Journal at least. They probably prefer not to join in on this exercise in futility, but they are members here. |
Mark A. York (Unregistered Guest)
Work-in-progress guest
Posted From: 67.24.75.40
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 23, 2003 - 03:26 pm: | |
Were they PA or POD authors? I think not. Glad you got what you wanted. Others actually think they're on top, when the opposite is true. |
Todd Hunter
Wisdom Member
Post Number:
828
Registered: 02-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 23, 2003 - 03:58 pm: | |
Sophie, I tend to browse through bookstores while I'm waiting around for the manager to come out and speak with me...I very rarely buy anything while I do that.
Most of the time, I'll buy something because it looks interesting, and it's on the deep discount rack. It's a lot easier to handle if I only spend $6 on a book I don't enjoy, versus $30. If I enjoy the first one, I'll move on to another book by the same author...most of the time, still on the discount rack (I almost never buy a book at full price)...sometimes when it first comes out, and they institute heavy discounts...
I'm not exactly sure why it would matter whether or not the same readers left reviews all over the web for me or not...it would be a problem, had these readers not actually bought a copy of the book and read it, then enjoyed it enough to leave a review. If you'd rather people leave reviews who haven't read the book......well, we won't go there...
Besides, I get enough reviews off-line...
Plus, I really couldn't care about the number of reviews, or who's giving them, on any of the online stores. It's nice to see a bunch of people enjoy it, but it carries the same issues as having your books stocked on bookstore shelves. No one is going to see it there, if they don't know about your book beforehand, so what does it matter?
I was able to get my book published without paying for it, and have met my goals for selling copies over the past year...I find it irritating as anything that the price of my book is not competitive (except when I make it so), but that's the way it's going to go... |
Laurel Johnson
Unity Member
Post Number:
2365
Registered: 01-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 23, 2003 - 05:10 pm: | |
Yes. They were PA and POD, Mark. Will wonders never cease eh? |
Steven Shrewsbury
Wandering Member
Post Number:
297
Registered: 04-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 23, 2003 - 06:23 pm: | |
Print on Demand books are exactly that.
Hence the name.
There has to be a demand from someone (sometimes the author themselves) to get a product stocked, or in many cases, sold. Many folks I know buy off AMAZON. Others, I sell it to them direct like. Never once did I have a dream of being a best seller via this avenue. However, I have spread my name around a tad doing this.
Got a brain storm folks, benn dying ot let it loose...WRITE A NEW BOOK. If your experience with PA or any other POD type of publisher wasn't good, peachy...write a NEW novel and step up to the plate again. A girl broke my heart in 1989 but I got over it.
This thread seems to be re-treading a great many things already overstated to the max on this forum. Was this the refresher thread I suggested or the sticky post? I doubt it.
Is any of this stuff about POD quality or whatever the heck it is news to anyone who can read?
My advice is always this: Keep writing and refining your craft. Sooner or later, the PA or POD route will be the one less traveled. Talking in circles about the same dang thing only wastes time better spent writing.
I gotta go. Got a synop to do. |
pacwriter
Unity Member
Post Number:
1004
Registered: 04-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 23, 2003 - 07:46 pm: | |
Met a husband and wife team tonight at writers conference who have published FORTY-ONE books since 1999. Romance and mystery - Avalon Books. They just signed with Berkley to do a new series.
Like Steven said - writing is the best cure for the PA blues.
http://www.pacwriter.netfirms.com/ |
Mark A. York (Unregistered Guest)
Work-in-progress guest
Posted From: 67.27.65.57
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 23, 2003 - 08:26 pm: | |
I would be interested knowing what POD books were reviewed by those major reviews saying so doesn't mean much. Where's the proof. As for "nothing will matter" I agree. No matter what you do with a PA or vanity book it won't matter. That's the take home lesson: write a good book; sell it to a real publisher; repeat. There are no shortcuts. I was doing that when I tossed a POD bone to PA thinking they would promote it. I was wrong. I was already gone when I started. Now I find find myself arguing the meaning of "at the Publisher's discretion." It's almost farce territory. Good luck. |
Laurel Johnson
Unity Member
Post Number:
2367
Registered: 01-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 24, 2003 - 05:03 am: | |
As I said earlier, if the writers here whose PA - POD books were reviewed by major publications want to join this exercise in futility, I will leave that up to them.
One PA author who does not frequent this board had his book reviewed in the San Francisco paper. The chronicle? Not sure of the name. His sales have been good ongoing because of it. Confessions of a Shanty Irishman is the name of the book.
As for proof, if you won't believe ME you won't believe anybody. } |
Todd Hunter
Wisdom Member
Post Number:
829
Registered: 02-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 24, 2003 - 05:25 am: | |
Actually, Steven, I mentioned on another thread that we're not hearing anything more than we already knew before...nothing new under the sun...
Mr. York, if you're trying to "call out" Laurel on her honesty, I feel great pity for you...she's one of the most honest people you're ever going to meet...
Your rationale for your "formula" is flawed. "No matter what you do with a PA or vanity book it won't matter." Funny, I consider it building a fan base. Strangely enough, there are a great number of people (even those who don't go online to leave their reviews of my work) who want to see the sequel. So, my plan is to write that sequel, get it through another publisher, and get it into the hands of the folks who want it...supply and demand, what a concept!
I didn't get into writing to make a ton of money...I take it that you did. I find it amusing that you blast anyone who doesn't make it with a "major" publisher...was this the case before or after you got "duped" by PA? |
pacwriter
Unity Member
Post Number:
1009
Registered: 04-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 24, 2003 - 09:44 am: | |
Victoria gives some interesting information about PA pricing based on their contract.
Many here have wondered how in the world those numbers come about on the royalty statements. try the link below
http://pub43.ezboard.com/fabsolutewritefrm11.showMessageRange?topicID=190.topic&start=61&stop=61
http://www.pacwriter.netfirms.com/ |
Mark A. York (Unregistered Guest)
Work-in-progress guest
Posted From: 67.24.123.38
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 24, 2003 - 12:07 pm: | |
Library Journal, Kirkus et al don't review such books. You said they did, but alas they're anonymous. And now you think it may be the SF Chronicle. This is justification of a substandard publishing system. You think it's something more. I think the facts speak for themselves. POD vanity publication renders the material useless. As a nonfiction writer my work as a professional conservation biologist simply isn't taken seriously because it is presented in this format. This transcends the material spectrum. It simply is a question you don't want to hear, because you feel that it cheapens your work. It's not me that's doing this. |
Mark A. York (Unregistered Guest)
Work-in-progress guest
Posted From: 67.24.123.38
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 24, 2003 - 12:14 pm: | |
Pac, I updated that page today. You'll find it interesting. If a writer can't convince a real editor at a real publishing house we've all heard of, to publish their work on its merit, then they don't deserve to be published. And that includes me. |
Gloria Marlow
Hsympothai Member
Post Number:
478
Registered: 04-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 24, 2003 - 03:40 pm: | |
Mr. York,
How can you know that? Have you read every book ever published by publishing houses other than the ones you are so hooked on? Do you realize that some authors feel that a big publishing house isn't the right match for them?
Another thing, the reviews from the Library Journal are on the Writers Board section of this website, ...go to the main topics page, then Writers Board, then about three fourths of the way down you'll see it, Library Journal is the title for the thread. I'm also sure that if you type in to google or some other search engine you can find the SF review for Confessions of a Shanty Irishman. By the way, those are three separate people...Laurel wasn't backpedaling and saying that the Library Journal didn't review, it was the SF Chronicle. She was simply adding another example to the equation.
I understand you are hellbent on suing PA or getting some sort of investigation going, I even understand where your bitterness is coming from. We've all come here to vent a time or two. But your attitude toward the writers on this board is just downright ugly.
What purpose would it serve for us to make things up? I don't think saying that no one published by PA can write is attacking PA as much as it is the authors themselves. Attacking the integrity of the authors here is something you should not do. We aren't trying to prove to you PA is a great company, we're just trying to tell you that there are people published by PA that have been somewhat successful and might even, God forbid, deserve to be published.
And whether you, I, or anyone else wants to accept it, many people published by PA are happy and will remain that way for eternity. Nothing you say will change their minds.
However, the attitude with which you convey your message does a lot toward swaying people to your side. Attacking people's talents, questioning everything anyone says about any publisher, and just your general lack of respect for anyone and anything said here, leaves me, at least, aggravated beyond measure, and wanting to be on whatever side you're not.
|
Todd Hunter
Wisdom Member
Post Number:
832
Registered: 02-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 24, 2003 - 04:03 pm: | |
"However, the attitude with which you convey your message does a lot toward swaying people to your side. Attacking people's talents, questioning everything anyone says about any publisher, and just your general lack of respect for anyone and anything said here, leaves me, at least, aggravated beyond measure, and wanting to be on whatever side you're not."
AMEN!
Couldn't have said it better myself... |
Steven Shrewsbury
Hsympothai Member
Post Number:
301
Registered: 04-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 24, 2003 - 04:25 pm: | |
Mark, could I be so bold as to ask what your latest project is? |
Mark A. York (Unregistered Guest)
Work-in-progress guest
Posted From: 67.25.247.134
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 24, 2003 - 05:41 pm: | |
You wouldn't be attacking me if you weren't asking the same questions. This really is fruitless, because you're not receptive to the truth. It's unfortunate but nothing to me. All I see here are distorted facts. It's classic relativism. PA has degraded your abilites not I. That's what the world thinks whether you know or accept it. My last work was in American History. John Wiley & Sons has it. |
Gloria Marlow
Hsympothai Member
Post Number:
480
Registered: 04-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 24, 2003 - 05:58 pm: | |
But we ALL asked the questions....we all came up with basically the same answers you did...we just didn't have to down each other or other authors to get them...
You're not being receptive to the truth either. How can you distort the fact that someone got reviewed by the Library Journal? They did, it's just that simple...Really, there is no hidden conspiracy theory going on here...We are none out to protect PA or make them look like the best thing since sliced bread.
If you haven't already, start at the bottom of this whole forum topic...go through each thread. I think you'll see almost all of our problems laid out and then you'll notice that we began to not embrace PA, but embrace writing again, embrace our talents, and ourselves as writers. It does mess with your head to have a dream turn into a mild nightmare. However, you'll see that well over half of the regulars here have now written other books that we've signed with other publishers, some big name, some small name, but all of our choices were made with a lot more knowledge and thought than before.
That we don't want to keep harping on the same old dirt, that we don't want to mire ourselves down in a lawsuit or investigation, doesn't mean we're "sheep", it means we're writers intent on surviving as such.
I see that you, too, have a good thing going on. A book with another publisher. Congratulations. I hope you're experience is a good one, as so many of us are finding going with the right publisher can be.
|
pacwriter
Unity Member
Post Number:
1010
Registered: 04-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 24, 2003 - 06:03 pm: | |
congrats Mark
As to Pa, some of us have been dealing unhappily with PA since their merger with AmErica House. You might say we have beat this dead horse to a second death. We have been over and over the same arguements so many times many here cringe at the mention of anything associated with PA.
Two things are in the works: People are contacting the news shows and the FTC. I am glad you have pushed people to do these things.
The POD discussion goes round and round because not all POD's are operating the same way. PA is the odd man out because they - and most here agree - are more closely associated to a vanity press model. No publisher generated publicity, higher than most POD prices, print on demand technology, and poor if any editing. They are, in my opinion, odd man out because of their connection to Ingram.
So, we have been there, done that are are moving on. A few still try to warn others about what they are getting into when they sign a contract with PA.
http://www.pacwriter.netfirms.com/ |
mark_y1 (Unregistered Guest)
Work-in-progress guest
Posted From: 67.27.71.170
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 24, 2003 - 06:16 pm: | |
I appreciate the clarification. As you can see at the aother site, PA people are still defending them with their own propaganda. Frankly, I think the latest ones are PA staff. See what you think. It appears I've done something of value here even though the insults outnumber the thanks. A publisher that takes slaves and instills fear is not something we want. I think we agree on that. |
Laurel Johnson
Unity Member
Post Number:
2369
Registered: 01-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 24, 2003 - 06:27 pm: | |
Oh Mark York. I have certainly not insulted you. I thought we were having a discussion and yet you have now essentially called me a liar and insinuated that I am mixed up.
A PA published author who wrote Confessions of a Shanty Irishman was reviewed in the SF Chronicle. At least two and maybe three PA published authors were reviewed in the Library Journal. Very nice reviews too by the way. But I am not free to give their names. This thread has deteriorated down to the point that none of the LJ reviewed authors would want to be involved.
I'm done discussing this with you. You do not want to learn or hear information. The only insults I see coming my way - the only person who has EVER insulted me on this board - are coming from you. Mark York. |
Oliver (Unregistered Guest)
Work-in-progress guest
Posted From: 205.185.123.38
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 24, 2003 - 07:22 pm: | |
Mark A. York doesn't have a book published by John Wiley. He has two books published. One with Xlibris and one with IUniverse--two PODs. One of the books, Alaska Tales he republished with Publish America. Why did Mr. York go with Publish America after unsuccessful stints with two other PODs? And why isn't he as adament against Xlibris and IUniverse? Mark A. York is nothing but a frustrated writer who thought by having a book published he was going to make a lot of money and become a celebrity. If John Wiley does publish a book of yours in the future you're not going to be happy. They don't promote much either. You'll get a little advance and never see a royalty check. In two years it'll be out-of-print and you'll be back at square one again with your book and your dreams. |
Steven Shrewsbury
Hsympothai Member
Post Number:
303
Registered: 04-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 24, 2003 - 08:08 pm: | |
I asked a simple and friendly question, for I am curious what everyone writes.
I am not attacking anyone. If I were trying to get your attention, you would know it.
I was also curious what books you have out, Mark. I would email you directly, not ask on the baord, but I do not know your addy. Just asking... |
Mark A. York (Unregistered Guest)
Work-in-progress guest
Posted From: 67.25.247.7
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 24, 2003 - 08:14 pm: | |
Check the absolutewrite bewares board for facts and uninhibited professional writers. Wiley has been in business since 1807. How long have you been around hot shot? How's your job as a PA lackey going? And for my POD experience as compared to say, oh I don't know, these POD writers above, we have one thing in common, a third POD called publish america. That is unfortunate. But you may have disparaged a respected publisher i.e Wiley. Bad move. |
Mark A. York (Unregistered Guest)
Work-in-progress guest
Posted From: 67.25.247.7
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 24, 2003 - 08:20 pm: | |
Mr. Shrewsbury,
And I told you. It's real but you see PA has arrived. I'm unfamiar with "addy." |
Gloria Marlow
Hsympothai Member
Post Number:
482
Registered: 04-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 24, 2003 - 08:41 pm: | |
"Mark A. York is nothing but a frustrated writer who thought by having a book published he was going to make a lot of money and become a celebrity."
Same old refrain...just substitute any of our names...it's been said about all of us.
I know that is supposed to be the worst of insults to a writer, but I ask you, how many people having a book published don't dream, if just for a moment, of making a lot of money and becoming a celebrity? It isn't what drove me to write, I suppose Mother Nature did that, but it most definitely entered my mind that it's something I'd like to do for a living.
I bet there aren't any/many of these big named authors with the big named publishers who say "oh, no, please don't give me an advance, it would make me less of an author and, by the way, I'm insulted that you think I would accept royalties"
|
Nancy Mehl
Mindsight Moderator
Post Number:
1372
Registered: 08-2001
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 24, 2003 - 09:15 pm: | |
Just a note....
My book was reviewed by Library Journal Mr. York - and I'm a PA author.
Nancy Mehl |
Mark A. York (Unregistered Guest)
Work-in-progress guest
Posted From: 67.25.247.7
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 24, 2003 - 09:16 pm: | |
Good point. And I'm not putting myself through Journalism school at fifty because I want to whittle. |
Todd Hunter
Wisdom Member
Post Number:
836
Registered: 02-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 24, 2003 - 09:22 pm: | |
addy = address, as in e-mail address...
*****
I will say this, every author dreams of making tons of money and becoming a celebrity, and to live off their writing as a full-time job...most, however, accept the cold hard reality that dictates very few will reach that point...
We write because we live to do so...if I could give it up, I would...but I can't, so I don't...
Ahhhhh, life just wouldn't be complete without a few folks dropping by to hurl insults...although it does come from a new name...Oliver...don't believe I've seen that one before...
However, I will also say that Mr. York is a bit over-dramatic...
"A publisher that takes slaves and instills fear is not something we want."
I'm no big fan of the PA business case (Lord only knows), but "takes slaves" is a bit over the top, in my opinion...and they've instilled a lot of things in me, but I'm afraid "fear" is not one of them...frustration and irritation many times over, but never fear... |
C. E. Winterland
Mindsight Moderator
Post Number:
1198
Registered: 06-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 24, 2003 - 10:15 pm: | |
I have really tried to stay out of all of this, but I do want to ask you a question, Mark.
How many fronts to you intend to fight all at once?
You make it clear that your intention is to fight PA, that's your choice and your right. But why do you want to fight the people here? This site continues to be a site for authors to speak their minds - we've allowed you to do it, just as we allow everyone else to, so long as they don't start calling people names and just randomly bashing about in frustration. I will admit that the name "PA lackey" is a new one to be aimed at the folks around here, I just about swallowed my tongue to read that one.
I also didn't really hear anyone 'disparage' Wiley.
The fact is, no one here was ever against you or your views, until you started shooting from the hip at them. I would offer you this advice though. Don't be too hasty in casting about your artillery, there are some pretty big guns around here.
If I may please ask kindly that you refrain from antagonizing folks on the board..? It doesn't help your points or your arguments, really. I was reading your posts just fine and nodding at some of your arguments for a time. But this verbal rampage is wasted when aimed at the folks here. I can certainly appreciate your enthusiasm (I don't think anyone will doubt that), and hope that it takes you where you want to go. There have been several that have come here trying to incite what might be called flash mob mentalities - and I believe this group to be one of action - but I've yet to see anyone lay out a realistic plan of any kind of action other than the usual letter-writing, etc...
To that point, I think Todd had the right of it a few days back. It takes more than just the initial emotion to follow-through, though it certainly can get you started.
Anyhow, longwinded bs from me aside, I'd really like to see calmer discussion, if it's not too much to ask.
Thanks.
C. E. Winterland |
Steven Shrewsbury
Hsympothai Member
Post Number:
304
Registered: 04-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 25, 2003 - 05:38 am: | |
Thank you Todd, but yes, addy does mean ADDRESS or email address. I do so hate to get in the middle of a discussion like this. I get confused over what is getting slung where.
I also have never confused this place with a PA supporter board.
Carry on folks. |
Todd Hunter
Wisdom Member
Post Number:
840
Registered: 02-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 25, 2003 - 07:45 am: | |
I think "PA lackey" was directed at the Oliver persona, CE...if that term had been directed at one of the regulars around here, I think I may have fallen out of my chair...
As with Steven, I've never confused this place with a PA supporter board either...
Onward and upward...off to go work some more on other writing... |
Mark A. York (Unregistered Guest)
Work-in-progress guest
Posted From: 67.27.66.73
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 25, 2003 - 10:24 am: | |
That's correct. Oliver is a PA plant, and CE I don't know you from Adam, but I understand this is your venture. It seems people are wounded and extremely touchy. I know why. As you can see my own publishing background has been used to disparage and discredit me. What does that tell you?
This is a PA exile community from what I can see, but many are afraid to fight. Unfortunately this thing is growing faster every day and more and more victims are lining up like they do at Hollywood extra services charging $100 for what is only $20. To them a buck for their work sounds good. That's the hook. If someone had done something about this before I and others wouldn't have stumbled into it. I take credit for falling for it as I was finishing and submitting another project, and against my better judgement gave it a try since the POD book was DOA anyway. It shouldn't have been there at all. If there are big guns here they should be aimed at the right target. And that's not me. The train has left the station and people will get their books back.
As for the Aston West plant, it seems over-the-line is mild for what he just did. What kind of disparagement do you call that? |
C. E. Winterland
Mindsight Moderator
Post Number:
1203
Registered: 06-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 25, 2003 - 11:09 am: | |
Hmmm. Did you know that when publishers go bankrupt the banks sieze all their booktitles as assets (both in print and in process under contract)? Interesting stuff. The rights of the author as the owner go out the window, because if, when the publisher goes under, the creditors get first dibs on the value of what's left, which means that the books very rarely get released back to the authors, except in those rare cases where the authors guild backs up the authors and fights for their rights with the supreme court. Too bad the author's guild has rules to keep PA authors out of their ranks, huh?
Mark, if you honestly feel threatened by someone suggesting they have a jammed 'blaster' and asking you to look down the barrel, I think there is actually a padded room somewhere waiting for its missing tenent.
The fact of the matter here is that this site contains plenty of factual accounts of people's experiences with their publisher(s). They aren't even difficult to find, really. New authors tempted to go to a non-traditional publisher, if they do any amount of research, can now find tons of information out there about them - which was not the case 3 years ago, when I got started. I honestly don't see how you can think an empty tirade is helping you make your point. If I was doing research on the web about this topic, I would see your posts and dismiss them as rants and look for something more concrete.
If you're studying journalism, then you know that you have no argument without hard evidence, detailed facts, and logical deduction. I can recommend a book or two on argument and logic...
CEW |
Mark A. York (Unregistered Guest)
Work-in-progress guest
Posted From: 67.27.66.73
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 25, 2003 - 11:26 am: | |
I recommend this link for information on the real story. I can see you have not taken a logic course because you're bent on protecting worthless material. It became worthless when PA got it. That's the point. And I started three years ago as well, so we came at the same time. Listen to Macdonald, Strauss et al. This is not about you.
http://pub43.ezboard.com/fabsolutewritefrm11.showMessageRange?topicID=190.topic&start=81&stop=89 |
Steven Shrewsbury
Hsympothai Member
Post Number:
306
Registered: 04-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 25, 2003 - 12:31 pm: | |
Aston showed up here? Damn, I missed it! Gotta watch that guy...
PA exile? Sheesh. I think I stated once that I was an author (pubbed) before PA and have been after. Heard it all before. Read old threads and refresh the memory. I chose to write new stuff and look before I leap more.
One is only in PA exile if one devotes all of their free time to constantly rehashing old issues, debatign stated facts, and NEVER writing new, better material. This way, one can be a slave to a force, the prisoner of the past, etc, etc...if you hate them so much stop enpowering them with your bile and turn to to something constructive. Cleans out the soul and makes for a rather pleasant feeling. And, one has something to show for it...like completed work...pages of tales...instead of board after board of words that will be deleted and vanish into the ether.
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Mark A. York (Unregistered Guest)
Work-in-progress guest
Posted From: 67.27.66.73
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 25, 2003 - 12:46 pm: | |
My research clears things up nicely. Picture complete. This will happen whether anyone here likes it or not, and has nothing to do with my so-called bile. As for action, it looks like you've been out-voted. It's all "new" news to many recent unfortnate writers, and many old ones. I have all I need. Thanks for the picture. And as I said I had "moved on" long before this started, and still am. It's just a brief public service detail, maybe derived from years of public service as a biologist for the federal goverment. Many of the "public" served weren't happy either. Valuable input has come from your commuity here. You helped. |
Todd Hunter
Wisdom Member
Post Number:
842
Registered: 02-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 25, 2003 - 01:52 pm: | |
I tried to warn him, Steve, but Aston never listens to me anymore...
although I did find Mr. York's response rather interesting, considering...
CE, you might not have been far off the mark in your assessment...
"I honestly don't see how you can think an empty tirade is helping you make your point. If I was doing research on the web about this topic, I would see your posts and dismiss them as rants and look for something more concrete."
It's not helping make his point...
Unfortunately, many people will see his rants, dismiss them as such,
and then decide PA is the best thing next to sliced bread.
So, in fact, he probably drives more people there than away...
but who knows?
The one thing I can't understand in all of this, is why it behooves people to get this emotionally attached to shutting PA down...that's very interesting information from CE about what happens if all of York's efforts are successful.
Ask this, why would it matter to author A (who had issues with PA) if author B (new author looking for a publisher) reads all the experiences out there, and still chooses PA? Author A has already written a second book (we hope), and gotten it placed with another publisher. If author B runs into the same issues as A did, they go through the same process (write a second book, get it placed elsewhere)...
Who knows, maybe that's just my simplistic (albeit recent) way of looking at it? |
Laurel Johnson
Unity Member
Post Number:
2373
Registered: 01-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 25, 2003 - 04:05 pm: | |
Hey Aston!! Good to see ya dude. You've been away too long. But let's put our heads together and figure something out here.
How did your intergalactic blaster - a non existent weapon in our galaxy as far as I know - turn into a SHOTGUN on another board?? I am no sci fi expert but even I know that is not possible. hmmmmmm As our old friend Mr. Spock would say, "It is not logical." |
pacwriter
Unity Member
Post Number:
1012
Registered: 04-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 25, 2003 - 04:12 pm: | |
As for me, PA could close tomorrow and I would not shed a tear.
Yes, I was angry and it surfaces everytime I think about it.
http://www.pacwriter.netfirms.com/ |
Todd Hunter
Wisdom Member
Post Number:
844
Registered: 02-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 25, 2003 - 04:58 pm: | |
Pac, I know how the entire PA situation can cause anger...trust me...
but again, I reiterate my point...telling people the issues, even in the form of a TV investigation or a lawsuit (though personally, I don't see those providing any type of relief), is one thing...blindly going off on wild-eyed rants is another...
People come up with their decisions based on what they're told, and how... |
Aston West
Awareness Member
Post Number:
4
Registered: 10-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 25, 2003 - 04:59 pm: | |
I've been trying to figure that out myself...
Maybe he got confused between my blaster and a disintegrator cannon?
A disintegrator cannon is long and carries a mighty large whallop...turns its victims into piles of organic dust...I don't really want to get caught with one though, because most places in the universe have outlawed them (for the reason just mentioned...pretty gruesome (not to mention painful) way to die.
My blaster is a Mark II model...the closest thing folks on Earth would equate to it would be something close to an Uzi, or possibly a Mac-10. Only thing, it runs on energized particles accelerated down the barrel...single burst, three shots...not bullets. It also doesn't cast a spray (come to think of it, neither does a disintegrator cannon), so who knows how one would confuse it with a shotgun?
Spock, now there was a smart guy...I bet he could tell us... |
Steven Shrewsbury
Hsympothai Member
Post Number:
309
Registered: 04-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 25, 2003 - 05:29 pm: | |
I'll be waiting on the 60 Minutes program. Shrugs. Hope it isn't on the same time as a SIMPSONS marathon...hate when that happens...
Aston, those are powerful weapons. Was out firing a 44 earlier, though Dack Shannon's weapon of choice is the auto-mag...which, as Clint Eastwood said, can remove the fingerprints.
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C. E. Winterland
Mindsight Moderator
Post Number:
1205
Registered: 06-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 25, 2003 - 08:47 pm: | |
Mark,
Thanks for the link. I think I've had enough of you at this point.
CEW
(Message edited by cewinterland on October 25, 2003) |
Fred Dungan
Hsympothai Member
Post Number:
385
Registered: 10-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 25, 2003 - 09:36 pm: | |
Arguing is getting us nowhere. An expose by 60 Minutes would not only get the ball rolling, it would put it squarely in Publish America's court.
http://www.fdungan.com/bushwhacked.htm |
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