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Violet Towe
Wandering Member
Post Number:
298
Registered: 03-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, March 19, 2004 - 06:16 am: |   |
I'm speaking about the thread 'PA convention'. I've seen enough of that subject pop up. So, wanna start a new thread and bring those conversations on over here and let that one die? |
Perry Comer
Unity Member
Post Number:
1214
Registered: 04-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, March 19, 2004 - 06:52 am: | |
There is this conversation taking place in Hollywood and in New York about producing more religious movies following the success of THE PASSION. I think several of us have seen a rise in Christian book publishing. Do you suppose the "traditional" publishing houses wil begin to look at the Christian market?
http://www.pacwriter.netfirms.com/ |
Nancy Mehl
Mindsight Moderator
Post Number:
1553
Registered: 08-2001
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, March 19, 2004 - 07:10 am: | |
Well, they have looked at the Christian market due to the success of the "Left Behind" series. But, even the Inspirational market has its set boundaries. This is one reason that John's sale to River Oak (?) was so exciting. John wrote something very different, and someone took notice of it. Believe it or not, our John has made a super inroad in a very narrow market.
Maybe "The Passion" will open up something in the literary market, but I suspect it will do more in the film industry.
Nancy |
Olen Armstrong
Wandering Member
Post Number:
153
Registered: 06-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, March 19, 2004 - 10:16 am: | |
"Market" may be the operative word. I intend to cautious about it.
Hollywood is market-driven and doesn't care much about content, as long as the thing makes money.
Mr. Gibson's work was driven by his own God(s) and demons, and came from his heart. And the result is a work made of love and true passion. A quality effort all around because he loved it.
Hollywood will want to cookie-cut anything with a religious theme and make them as quickly and cheaply as possible. When the inevitable happens, and they start to make boring foolish crap, their market will dissolve.
Hollywood isn't known for quality work. That's why Gibson did it his way to start with.
At least with the passing of Jim Varney we'll be spared the movie: "Ernest Goes to Seminary" and its sequel "Ernest Converts to Wikken".
At least I HOPE we'll be spared.
Later on,
Olen A |
Perry Comer
Unity Member
Post Number:
1215
Registered: 04-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, March 19, 2004 - 10:28 am: | |
amen olen
http://www.pacwriter.netfirms.com/ |
Gloria Marlow
Wisdom Member
Post Number:
715
Registered: 04-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, March 19, 2004 - 10:58 am: | |
I haven't seen the movie yet. Have any of you?
|
Olen Armstrong
Wandering Member
Post Number:
154
Registered: 06-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, March 19, 2004 - 11:31 am: | |
Inspiring, gut-wrenching, violent, realistic.
By the end....Niagra Falls, bay-bee, Niagra Falls.
Massive unapologetic waterworks on my part. And it really doesn't matter if you even believe the story. It's just, pardon the phrasing, one helluva story, with marvelous characters.
Believing just makes it...more.
(For the record, I also tear up immediately over our goodguys in the Middle East. Explanation: when that started, my 7yrold granddaughter couldn't grasp what was happening in Afghanistan. I finally explained that "our good guys" were fighting the "bad guys" who helped kill all those Mommas and Daddys on Sept 11. She got it. They've been "Our Good Guys" at my house ever since. I pray they always live up to it.)
See the movie. Get the book. Buy the tee-shirt
Later on,
Olen A. |
Perry Comer
Unity Member
Post Number:
1216
Registered: 04-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, March 19, 2004 - 11:39 am: | |
the basic message of the movie (no matter if you are Chrstian or not) is "He went through all of this suffering for you."
I saw the movie, as a pastor and 40 + year Christian, and I can say that it was brutal but a spiritual experience. Like Olen, the water-works for me were at the end - the resurrection!!
there is an island in the Phillipines where they had a crucifixton celebration every year. Several men will be physicaly crucified (nails in the feet and hands). I guess this is their form of the movie.
http://www.pacwriter.netfirms.com/ |
Claudia Turner VanLydegraf
Mindsight Moderator
Post Number:
966
Registered: 06-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, March 19, 2004 - 12:00 pm: | |
I saw it about two weeks ago, although I had to leave before it was over. So, I guess that I missed the most important part, but, IT WAS A VERY WELL DONE MOVIE, and the STORY AS WELL AS THE BRUTALITY, REALISTIC TO THE TIMES (I would imagine) and very gut wrenching. Shows up the mob mentality and the powers that were in the ways that they used it to their advantage and for destructive purpose. I know the bible pretty well, however not as well as my brother who is a Pastor or many of you that post on this board, so I am not a great crit as to the total story according to the bible. But, that said, I am very happy that I saw it and I will buy the DVD when it is available and I probably will go see it again before that comes out, just so that I can see the end. For me to see a movie, any movie, TWICE, it has to be worthwhile. I have one of those stupid photographic minds and when I see, hear, write, say-talk about, read anything, it stays with me for an eternity, so I don't own movies or re-read books, or even articles. I save lots of money that way, but on some sides it is a downer because people want to rehash/re-see the old stuff, which I don't own.
Mel G did good when he put it together, and also in his choice of people to star in it. Course, he always does good in most every movie he has put his name to in any way.
Claudia |
Sheila Schmidt
Hsympothai Member
Post Number:
412
Registered: 05-2002
Rating: 
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, March 19, 2004 - 01:26 pm: | |
I saw it. Took about 8-10 minutes for me to start crying, and about another 10-15 minutes until the crying was from my soul. It is a very powerful movie, especially if you have children, Gloria. I always find it difficult to read the crucifixion part in the Bible, and this movie was pretty much what I thought it would be from reading the Gospels. I think the Gospel John was probably the closest respresented, and it happens to be my favorite one, anyway. I recommend seeing it. With very few minor exceptions, I thought it was an extremely accurate account of what the Bible relates to this event.
Sheila |
D.R. Bennett
Awareness Member
Post Number:
46
Registered: 05-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, March 19, 2004 - 03:34 pm: | |
Olen is totally right about how Hollywood wants to "tag" anything that makes $$$$$.
I saw The Passion in the theatre, alone. I am one who is very cautious of showing my emotions in public, but this was one of those times when I cried so much I had no tears left. I still wanted to cry when the movie was over, but I think I dehydrated myself. There was no salt left!
I was raised by Christian parents, but ended up rebelling just like most teenagers do. Now that I am 33, and have been in a Spiritual Transcendental mode for quite some time, The Passion did fair justice in confirming my belief that Jesus'es crucifixion was perhaps the most brutal death in all history.
I won't go into religious jargain here because I don't think that that is what Mel was trying to bring forth. It was the act of carrying one's own cross and being slashed and bashed into the damn thing and giving one's life for the sake of justice, mercy, forgiveness and love that convicted me.
If I had to do that for those I love, I would. The Passion shook me greatly since I can relate to what Mel had gone through with alcoholism and suicide. To know that I have another chance at life because of one man's death and resurrection is a great load off. A great masterpiece of filmart I must say. Very well done and said.
D.R. Bennett
http://www.angelfire.com/goth/donray/trustworthy.html
http://www.drbennett.2ya.com |
Kevin P. Grover
Unity Member
Post Number:
1101
Registered: 03-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, March 19, 2004 - 03:38 pm: | |
I saw it and thought that it was well done...except for the scourging part. While I agree that it was violent and brutal, I believe that it went far beyond reality.
You'll have to forgive the "realist" in me, but the amount of physical damage and blood loss...I don't believe that he would have remained conscious at the very least.
Of course, I am asking for people to say something like, "Well, he was the son of God." However, if one remembers that it was stated he was as human, and in human form. This was clearly established in Biblical reference because regardless of his parentage, he was human. He felt and suffered as a human, and was subject to the physiological laws of humanity.
As I said, other than that...I thought it was a very well-made movie. Mel Gibson has said that he wants to do more Biblical epics and I feel they would be presented very well if he puts as much care as he did in this one.
www.winterwolfpublishing.com |
Tony (Unregistered Guest)
Work-in-progress guest
Posted From: 24.31.215.202
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, March 19, 2004 - 03:58 pm: | |
I haven't seen the movie but lashing a man 40 times usually resulted in killing him. My understanding is that Christ was lashed 39 times.
How did the movie handle this? Did they do it to the point where you could count each strike? |
Laurel Johnson
Unity Member
Post Number:
2747
Registered: 01-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, March 19, 2004 - 03:58 pm: | |
I read somewhere once in a history book that the whips they used to scourge prisoners with in those times had lead balls with a number of hooklike barbs in each lead ball. They were devised to inflict the most amount of tissue damage, pain, and blood loss. They could penetrate down to muscle and bone when in the hands of an expert scourger. Many prisoners did not survive the scourging because the blood loss was so great. So maybe that is why it was so bloody.
I have not seen the movie. I don't have the strength to weep hysterically, and that would no doubt be my response. Hubby wants to go and if he does, he will have to go alone. |
Tony (Unregistered Guest)
Work-in-progress guest
Posted From: 24.31.215.202
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, March 19, 2004 - 04:13 pm: | |
A Physician Analyzes the Crucifixion.
From New Wine Magazine, April 1982.
Originally published in Arizona Medicine,
March 1965, Arizona Medical Association.
Several years ago I became interested in the physical aspects of the passion, or suffering, of Jesus Christ when I read an account of the crucifixion in Jim Bishop's book, The Day Christ Died. I suddenly realized that I had taken the crucifixion more or less for granted all these years - that I had grown callous to its horror by a too-easy familiarity with the grim details. It finally occurred to me that, as a physician, I did not even know the actual immediate cause of Christ's death. The gospel writers do not help much on this point. Since crucifixion and scourging were so common during their lifetimes, they undoubtedly considered a detailed description superfluous. For that reason we have only the concise words of the evangelists: "Pilate, having scourged Jesus, delivered Him to them to be crucified ... and they crucified Him."
Despite the gospel accounts silence on the details of Christ's crucifixion, many have looked into this subject in the past. In my personal study of the event from a medical viewpoint, I am indebted especially to Dr. Pierre Barbet, a French surgeon who did exhaustive historical and experimental research and wrote extensively on the topic.
An attempt to examine the infinite psychic and spiritual suffering of the Incarnate1 God in atonement for the sins of fallen man is beyond the scope of this article. However, the physiological and anatomical aspects of our Lord's passion we can examine in some detail. What did the body of Jesus of Nazareth actually endure during those hours of torture?
Gethsemane
The physical passion of Christ began in Gethsemane. Of the many aspects of His initial suffering, the one which is of particular physiological interest is the bloody sweat. Interestingly enough, the physician, St. Luke, is the only evangelist to mention this occurrence. He says, "And being in an agony, he prayed the longer. And his sweat became as drops of blood, trickling down upon the ground" (Luke 22:44 KJV).
Every attempt imaginable has been used by modern scholars to explain away the phenomenon of bloody sweat, apparently under the mistaken impression that it simply does not occur. A great deal of effort could be saved by consulting the medical literature. Though very rare, the phenomenon of hematidrosis, or bloody sweat, is well documented. Under great emotional stress, tiny capillaries in the sweat glands can break, thus mixing blood with sweat. This process alone could have produced marked weakness and possible shock.
Although Jesus' betrayal and arrest are important portions of the passion story, the next event in the account which is significant from a medical perspective is His trial before the Sanhedrin and Caiaphas, the High Priest. Here the first physical trauma was inflicted. A soldier struck Jesus across the face for remaining silent when questioned by Caiaphas. The palace guards then blindfolded Him, mockingly taunted Him to identify them as each passed by, spat on Him, and struck Him in the face.
Before Pilate
In the early morning, battered and bruised, dehydrated, and worn out from a sleepless night, Jesus was taken across Jerusalem to the Praetorium of the Fortress Antonia, the seat of government of the Procurator of Judea, Pontius Pilate. We are familiar with Pilate's action in attempting to shift responsibility to Herod Antipas, the Tetrarch of Judea. Jesus apparently suffered no physical mistreatment at the hands of Herod and was returned to Pilate. It was then, in response to the outcry of the mob, that Pilate ordered Barabbas released and condemned Jesus to scourging and crucifixion.
Preparations for Jesus' scourging were carried out at Caesar's orders. The prisoner was stripped of His clothing and His hands tied to a post above His head. The Roman legionnaire stepped forward with the flagrum, or flagellum, in his hand. This was a short whip consisting of several heavy, leather thongs with two small balls of lead attached near the ends of each. The heavy whip was brought down with full force again and again across Jesus' shoulders, back, and legs. At first the weighted thongs cut through the skin only. Then, as the blows continued, they cut deeper into the subcutaneous tissues, producing first an oozing of blood from the capillaries and veins of the skin and finally spurting arterial bleeding from vessels in the underlying muscles.
The small balls of lead first produced large deep bruises that were broken open by subsequent blows. Finally, the skin of the back was hanging in long ribbons, and the entire area was an unrecognizable mass of torn, bleeding tissue. When it was determined by the centurion in charge that the prisoner was near death, the beating was finally stopped.
Mockery
The half-fainting Jesus was then untied and allowed to slump to the stone pavement, wet with his own blood. The Roman soldiers saw a great joke in this provincial Jew claiming to be a king. They threw a robe across His shoulders and placed a stick in His hand for a scepter. They still needed a crown to make their travesty complete. Small flexible branches covered with long thorns, commonly used for kindling fires in the charcoal braziers in the courtyard, were plaited into the shape of a crude crown. The crown was pressed into his scalp and again there was copious bleeding as the thorns pierced the very vascular tissue. After mocking Him and striking Him across the face, the soldiers took the stick from His hand and struck Him across the head, driving the thorns deeper into His scalp. Finally, they tired of their sadistic sport and tore the robe from His back. The robe had already become adherent to the clots of blood and serum in the wounds, and its removal, just as in the careless removal of a surgical bandage, caused excruciating pain. The wounds again began to bleed.
Golgotha
In deference to Jewish custom, the Romans apparently returned His garments. The heavy patibulum of the cross was tied across His shoulders. The procession of the condemned Christ, two thieves, and the execution detail of Roman soldiers headed by a centurion began its slow journey along the route which we know today as the Via Dolorosa.
In spite of Jesus' efforts to walk erect, the weight of the heavy wooden beam, together with the shock produced by copious loss of blood, was too much. He stumbled and fell. The rough wood of the beam gouged into the lacerated skin and muscles of the shoulders. He tried to rise, but human muscles had been pushed beyond their endurance. The centurion, anxious to proceed with the crucifixion, selected a stalwart North African onlooker, Simon of Cyrene, to carry the cross. Jesus followed, still bleeding and sweating the cold, clammy sweat of shock. The 650-yard journey from the Fortress Antonia to Golgotha was finally completed. The prisoner was again stripped of His clothing except for a loin cloth which was allowed the Jews.
The crucifixion began. Jesus was offered wine mixed with myrrh, a mild analgesic, pain-relieving mixture. He refused the drink. Simon was ordered to place the patibulum on the ground, and Jesus was quickly thrown backward, with His shoulders against the wood. The legionnaire felt for the depression at the front of the wrist. He drove a heavy, square wrought-iron nail through the wrist and deep into the wood. Quickly, he moved to the other side and repeated the action, being careful not to pull the arms too tightly, but to allow some flexion and movement. The patibulum was then lifted into place at the top of the stipes, and the titulus reading "Jesus of Nazareth, King of the Jews" was nailed into place.
The left foot was pressed backward against the right foot. With both feet extended, toes down, a nail was driven through the arch of each, leaving the knees moderately flexed. The victim was now crucified.
On the Cross
As Jesus slowly sagged down with more weight on the nails in the wrists, excruciating fiery pain shot along the fingers and up the arms to explode in the brain. The nails in the wrists were putting pressure on the median nerve, large nerve trunks which traverse the mid-wrist and hand. As He pushed himself upward to avoid this stretching torment, He placed His full weight on the nail through His feet. Again there was searing agony as the nail tore through the nerves between the metatarsal bones of this feet.
At this point, another phenomenon occurred. As the arms fatigued, great waves of cramps swept over the muscles, knotting them in deep relentless, throbbing pain. With these cramps came the inability to push Himself upward. Hanging by the arm, the pectoral muscles, the large muscles of the chest, were paralyzed and the intercostal muscles, the small muscles between the ribs, were unable to act. Air could be drawn into the lungs, but could not be exhaled. Jesus fought to raise Himself in order to get even one short breath. Finally, the carbon dioxide level increased in the lungs and in the blood stream, and the cramps partially subsided.
The Last Words
Spasmodically, He was able to push Himself upward to exhale and bring in life-giving oxygen. It was undoubtedly during these periods that He uttered the seven short sentences that are recorded.
The first - looking down at the Roman soldiers throwing dice for His seamless garment: "Father, forgive them for they do not know what they do."
The second - to the penitent thief: "Today, thou shalt be with me in Paradise."
The third - looking down at Mary His mother, He said: "Woman, behold your son." Then turning to the terrified, grief-stricken adolescent John , the beloved apostle, He said: "Behold your mother."
The fourth cry is from the beginning of Psalm 22: "My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?"
He suffered hours of limitless pain, cycles of twisting, joint-rending cramps, intermittent partial asphyxiation, and searing pain as tissue was torn from His lacerated back from His movement up and down against the rough timbers of the cross. Then another agony began: a deep crushing pain in the chest as the pericardium, the sac surrounding the heart, slowly filled with serum and began to compress the heart.
The prophecy in Psalm 22:14 was being fulfilled: "I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint, my heart is like wax; it is melted in the midst of my bowels."
The end was rapidly approaching. The loss of tissue fluids had reached a critical level; the compressed heart was struggling to pump heavy, thick, sluggish blood to the tissues, and the tortured lungs were making a frantic effort to inhale small gulps of air. The markedly dehydrated tissues sent their flood of stimuli to the brain. Jesus gasped His fifth cry: "I thirst." Again we read in the prophetic psalm: "My strength is dried up like a potsherd; my tongue cleaveth to my jaws; and thou has brought me into the dust of death" (Psalm 22:15 KJV).
A sponge soaked in posca, the cheap, sour wine that was the staple drink of the Roman legionnaires, was lifted to Jesus' lips. His body was now in extremis, and He could feel the chill of death creeping through His tissues. This realization brought forth His sixth word, possibly little more than a tortured whisper: "It is finished." His mission of atonement had been completed.
Finally, He could allow His body to die. With one last surge of strength, He once again pressed His torn feet against the nail, straightened His legs, took a deeper breath, and uttered His seventh and last cry: "Father, into Your hands I commit My spirit."
Death
The common method of ending a crucifixion was by crucifracture, the breaking of the bones of the leg. This prevented the victim from pushing himself upward; the tension could not be relieved from the muscles of the chest, and rapid suffocation occurred. The legs of the two thieves were broken, but when the soldiers approached Jesus, they saw that this was unnecessary.
Apparently, to make doubly sure of death, the legionnaire drove his lance between the ribs, upward through the pericardium and into the heart. John 19:34 states, "And immediately there came out blood and water." Thus there was an escape of watery fluid from the sac surrounding the heart and the blood of the interior of the heart. This is rather conclusive post-mortem evidence that Jesus died, not the usual crucifixion death by suffocation, but of heart failure due to shock and constriction of the heart by fluid in the pericardium.
Resurrection
In these events, we have seen a glimpse of the epitome of evil that man can exhibit toward his fellow man and toward God. This is an ugly sight and is likely to leave us despondent and depressed.
But the crucifixion was not the end of the story. How grateful we can be that we have a sequel: a glimpse of the infinite mercy of God toward man--the gift of atonement, the miracle of the resurrection, and the expectation of Easter morning.
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Gloria Marlow
Wisdom Member
Post Number:
719
Registered: 04-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, March 19, 2004 - 05:58 pm: | |
I've always thought about the mental and spiritual aspect of the crucifixion, also. Although He was human while on Earth, he was more and Jesus was born, raised and spent his adulthood in fellowship with God, a fellowship above and beyond what we can know. Yet, I believe from the time in the Garden when he accepted that there was no other way, he took sin upon him from that moment and became sin personified. From that moment, he was out of fellowship. How horrendous that must have been to suffer so deeply physically and mentally and not have the comfort of spirit that comes with knowing God is there. Of course, Jesus knew what was to come, so that was hope, but how alone and dark those hours must have been for him without fellowship with his Father.
I don't think I can see the movie. My husband wants to see it, but like Laurel said, I'm afraid he'll be going alone. I miss half of all violent, bloody movies because I have my eyes covered. I really don't think I can watch someone I know and love being tortured and killed that realistically. I may try it on dvd when it comes out.
Gloria |
Laurel Johnson
Unity Member
Post Number:
2749
Registered: 01-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, March 19, 2004 - 06:11 pm: | |
Good medical explanation Tony. Probably accurate.
I could not watch a movie where a crazed killer was tortured in such a way. Let alone the Christ who died for the sins of the world. I can imagine it quite vividly without seeing it. |
Nancy Mehl
Mindsight Moderator
Post Number:
1557
Registered: 08-2001
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, March 20, 2004 - 06:37 am: | |
Saw it but shut down emotionally pretty close to the beginning. I've had this problem ever since I was young. So...I know I'll get hit with it at some point. Of course, it hasn't strayed far from my mind.
Last night, my friend Mark told me that with every lash he thought, "That was for another one of my sins." He was an emotional mess.
Powerful - and about time. I'm tired of these movies that show Christ as some namby pamby person who stares out into space as if he's on drugs. Jesus felt what we feel and understood our weaknesses. He was very much God - and very much man. That's why we can go to Him with anything that affects us. He understands.
I also thought the portrayal of satan was right on. Chilling.
Nancy
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D.R. Bennett
Awareness Member
Post Number:
47
Registered: 05-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, March 20, 2004 - 01:26 pm: | |
Laurel is right about the whipping. The whips they used back then had steel hooks on the end that were designed to rip a chunk of flesh out each time it was struck. It was called The Cat of Nine Tails...a huge whip with nine leather straps that had hooks on the ends. Very brutal indeed.
And Jesus did what to deserve this?
Donny -
http://www.spirithelp.2ya.com
http://www.drbennett.2ya.com |
D.R. Bennett
Awareness Member
Post Number:
48
Registered: 05-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, March 20, 2004 - 01:38 pm: | |
Sorry to post twice, but I am so into this subject that I can't stop without saying this:
Anyone who denies that the crucifixion was not as gory and brutal as The Passion portrays, is very ignorant and naive.
I painted a picture of the crucifixion when I was seventeen, and it basically showed Jesus as hamburger. Yep...that's exactly what they did to him.
Hamburger my friends. Raw bloody meat...but still living.
Oh, by the way...does anyone here play a musical instrument?
- D -
http://www.drbennett.2ya.com |
Steven Shrewsbury
Wisdom Member
Post Number:
611
Registered: 04-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, March 20, 2004 - 02:22 pm: | |
Jesus did nada to deserve it, DR. He could have called legions of angels to stop it at any time. That isn't what he was born to do.
It was my fault. He had to do it because of me and my gene pool and the flaw in humanity that is sin.
I could get into an indepth discussion of blood sacrifice in all religions...and the death of a God to atoned for a flaw in the universe, but it would get too out there for some...and how we cannot comprehend the greatest moment of his pain...when he looked to heaven and saw his father's back....for God could not look on Sin, what Jesus had become for us....but as ya know, it is sorta complicated.
It may not seem fair to us. We are humans.
BTW, the Romans were experts at death, torture and violence. They probably were as surprised as any that he lived through the beatings. It isn't like they cared much. The WORLD was Roman territory back then.
Did Gibson overdo it?
Shrugs. I thought the hanging off the trail scene that wasn't in the Bible was a tad much...but mostly, it was as I always sw it. You see, I never have seen a Jesus flick that did the passion justice. until now. |
D.R. Bennett
Awareness Member
Post Number:
50
Registered: 05-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, March 20, 2004 - 06:11 pm: | |
Man, Steven,
That is SO TRUE. He did it because of all of us...our carnal nature that wants to judge something that's new and pure.
I am so glad I was not alive back then. They would of crucified me too.
Thank God for human time frames.
-Donny-
http://www.drbennett.2ya.com |
Steven Shrewsbury
Wisdom Member
Post Number:
614
Registered: 04-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, March 20, 2004 - 07:30 pm: | |
Actually, depending on your status as a citizen, you woudl be executed in a number of ways.
For example, Paul (aka Saul) was a roman citizen, thus appealed to Nero direct. He was beheaded, but they ahd a number of ways. It reminds me of the scene in HISTORY OF THE WORLD when the Centurion asks the crwod how they execute someoen and they all hop and have different answers...boiling in oil, lions, a hot poker...
In India, parts of the middle east and some parts of Africa, they will still kill you for being a Christian.
www.stevenshrewsbury.com |
John Laurence Robinson
Wisdom Member
Post Number:
519
Registered: 01-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, March 20, 2004 - 08:52 pm: | |
Shrews...right you are, my friend. My oldest son and his wife are missionaries (presently home on furlough) and were stationed with YWAM, Youth With A Mission, out of Christchurch, New Zealand. A few years ago their team was sent to Hyderabad, India, for a one-month outreach tour. Two days in, our daughter-in-law and infant grandson became ill, and were flown back to Christchurch. Then two days after that, a seminal event occurred: 9-1-1. And our son and his team were trapped in a Muslim town 1,000 miles inside of India's eastern border. Communication ceased for nearly three weeks...three weeks which for us were absolutely nerve-wracking. Finally the Christchurch team got a shortwave transmission: our son and the others were on their way home, after having been smuggled out on horseback, a truck, and finally a dilapidated freight train. But what's heartbreaking is that even though they were safe, the night after they were captured Muslim fanatics dragged an English doctor and his wife, members of the medical team and a couple who'd treated the village people gratis, out of their home and slit their throats in the street. So, yeah, it's still fair game for Christians...look at Sudan. But it all gets very little press. And so it goes.
PS I too was wiped out by the Passion...three weeks ago I saw it, and parts of it still arrive unbidden in my mind and bring my steps to a halt. "Powerful" doesn't even scratch the surface.
John |
Perry Comer
Unity Member
Post Number:
1221
Registered: 04-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, March 20, 2004 - 09:17 pm: | |
there are several small items in the movie that are not in the New Testament. Catholic legends are sprinkled here and there but since Mel Gibson is a catholic it is understandable those things are present.
Nit-picky
The over-riding point of Gibson's movie is - Jesus did this for each person who sees the movie. Jesus suffered so others might live.
Now for a preacher point that is over overlooked.
Jesus said, "I lay down my life, no one takes it from me." He laid it down! He also said, "Anyone who would follow me must take up my cross." And, "If you would gain life, you must die." Jesus taught that the life He laid down is to be taken up by those who follow Him. As Paul wrote, "It is no longer I that live but Christ lives. the life that Jesus laid down, we take up. We live as He lived (without sin, peaceful, righteous, holy).
Many people miss this very important point.
http://www.pacwriter.netfirms.com/ |
D.R. Bennett
Hunger Member
Post Number:
51
Registered: 05-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, March 20, 2004 - 10:23 pm: | |
Very good point Perry! And yes, I missed that simple truth also.
Sometimes we forget simple truths...the fact that Jesus allowed himself to die is a simple truth that many of us today can't understand. That is, if anyone even believes that he even did the things the bible says.
Why one man? Why that one single soul in history?
"Behold! The lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world!"
Then why do I continue to sin? Why do any of us continue to do anything at all?
Grace. Love. Mercy. Justice.
It's all good, yet how many times do we fall so short? I know I do.
I guess that's what forgiveness is all about. Thank God for Jesus, no wait...Thank Jesus for God...no wait...They are now one, as they were in beginning.
- D -
http://www.spirithelp.2ya.com
http://www.drbennett.2ya.com |
Steven Shrewsbury
Wisdom Member
Post Number:
615
Registered: 04-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, March 21, 2004 - 06:07 am: | |
Yes, I noted many Roman Catholic things in the film, but held my tongue on it. Shrugs.
Correct on the words, there, PAC.
Yeah John, that sounds like a horror story. 911 made many face a terrible reality in the world.
DR, we are humans and thus, will sin again no matter what. It is part of our nature. We must strive to do better. As Satan uses the same old methods (they still work) he cannot help his nature, either.
www.stevenshrewsbury.com |
D.R. Bennett
Hunger Member
Post Number:
52
Registered: 05-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, March 21, 2004 - 02:45 pm: | |
There is a lot of knowledge on this forum. I can't help but to think that maybe we all should be doing something better than this.
It's great to be able to share views and opinions with each other, but it almost seems like a chore to keep coming back here and responding, not that it isn't enjoyable, but I can't help but thinking there has to be more to these forums than meets the eye, or the mind.
C.E. has made this such a great place where we can all share our experiences, good, bad or ugly. The fact that we can even talk about Christ without getting banned or bashed is a miracle in itself.
We have so much freedom here. There is so much respect for one another. I am so grateful to have met such wonderful people here. Thank you all.
- Donny -
http://www.drbennett.2ya.com
http://www.drbennett.2ya.com |
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