| Author |
Message |
    
Victoria Strauss
Awareness Member
Post Number:
39
Registered: 11-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 19, 2004 - 10:23 am: |   |
Donny--you forgot the other important piece of information about yourself: no sales whatsoever. No fees is a nice change, though.
- Victoria
www.victoriastrauss.com
www.writerbeware.com |
writersagent
Hunger Member
Post Number:
91
Registered: 05-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 19, 2004 - 05:56 pm: | |
Thank you Victoria.
I just started doing this a few years ago, as you may already know.
When I first started accepting manuscripts from other writers, I required a $20.00 fee. I didn't think that was too much to ask, but I realized that my money should come from book sales alone.
There is something new to learn every day in this business, and I hate looking at it as a business, but that's what it is.
I see so many talented writers go by the wayside, I wanted to provide a way for spiritual, esoteric and metaphysical writers to get their work seen.
I started doing this not only because I saw a great need for it, but I also wanted to start a whole new trend in the publishing industry...getting rid of the crap that is on so many bookstore shelves, and marketing books that actually help people grow spiritually and ethically.
Donny Ray
http://www.literaryagent.2ya.com |
Dennis Collins
Mindsight Moderator
Post Number:
824
Registered: 06-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 19, 2004 - 06:46 pm: | |
DR
Perhaps you'll succeed but it's a really tough business to break in to. I've talked to a number of agents at conferences and most of them come from inside the industry, beginning as editors and such. Others enter the field by hiring in to an established agency with a fresh business or literary degree in their hand.
It also has the distinct smell of an "old boy" system. Seems as if all of the successful agents and acquisition editors know one another on a first name basis. I've often heard that most deals are made over lunch or at cocktail parties. Sounds like a clique to me and if you're not on the inside, there's not much action.
Maybe I'm all wet. It's just my impression.
Good luck... |
Laurel Johnson
Unity Member
Post Number:
2865
Registered: 01-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, April 20, 2004 - 04:26 am: | |
Unfortunately, it's a dog eat dog world no matter what profession you pursue.
Hospital, long term care, and home health nursing had their hierarchies everywhere I worked. Excellence or ability often had nothing do do with who got the plum jobs and higher wages.
The good old boy network is alive and well no matter where you turn - from government, to publishing and all points in between.
I find it all very discouraging and sad.
|
Victoria Strauss
Awareness Member
Post Number:
40
Registered: 11-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, April 20, 2004 - 08:43 am: | |
>>It also has the distinct smell of an "old boy" system. Seems as if all of the successful agents and acquisition editors know one another on a first name basis.<<
This is very true: publishing is still a face-to-face, handshake world. That's why it's so important, when you're looking for an agent, to find someone with either a solid track record of previous sales, or previous professional publishing experience (the expertise acquired that way also helps: if someone's going to be negotiating a publishing contract for you, you really want them to be familiar with contract terms). Someone who has neither is unlikely to get anywhere, and if you sign a contract with that person you'll just be marking time, even if you aren't made to pay cash on the barrelhead.
A new agent who's going to be successful will start making sales within six months to a year of starting up. If an agent has been in business for a number of years and still has no track record, it's a pretty good indication that he doesn't have the skills or the contacts he needs.
- Victoria
www.victoriastrauss.com
www.writerbeware.com |
Laurel Johnson
Unity Member
Post Number:
2868
Registered: 01-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, April 20, 2004 - 09:04 am: | |
Victoria -
Have you heard anything about ST Literary Agency? A writer I know reently signed with them. She paid an up front fee and says they will "print and distribute" copies of her book to publishers? Meaning print and distribute through channels we would normally expect publishers to use. |
priceless1
Hunger Member
Post Number:
64
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, April 20, 2004 - 09:09 am: | |
If I may toss a name into the ring...
We've received several submissions from a Mark Bredt from S T Literary Agency, Inc. He seems to be a good guy, though I have to say that I feel badly for his authors. In my way of thinking, an agent is useful for getting an author submitted to those publishing companies who won't accept them from the author. Anyone can submit to us, so it seems a waste of their potential dollar to have their agent seek us out.
I'm certainly not denigrating what we offer. I'm very proud of our marketing plan, royalties, advances and return policy. We're growing by leaps and bounds, but we're still small.
I just couldn't help but feel that if I was signing with an agent, I'd be sorely disappointed he wasn't querying the big guys.
Just my two cents worth...
Lynn
Lynn
lynnprice.net
|
Victoria Strauss
Awareness Member
Post Number:
41
Registered: 11-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, April 20, 2004 - 03:21 pm: | |
Lynn, could you please contact me offlist? victoria@victoriastrauss.com
ST is the agency that Writer Beware receives the most questions about right now--I get anywhere between 5 and 10 letters a week. It advertises itself very aggressively. As Laurel mentioned, it charges an upfront fee ($129) plus $14 per publisher submission. Submissions supposedly are sent out every month or two.
ST appears to use unprofessional submission methods. Publishers and producers aren't interested in seeing full mss. unless they're requested (which means a call or query first). But ST claims to submit the full ms. and cover letter together (and to bind the ms., which is not appropriate for book manuscripts). If they really do submit this way, the submission would probably be regarded as unsolicited and either discarded or returned unread. Also, from documentation I've gathered, ST seems to use the same submission list for multiple clients, regardless of the subject or genre of the ms.--which would obviously result in a large number of inappropriate submissions. Publishers quickly learn to ignore agencies that submit unprofessionally, or consistently send inappropriate material.
When asked about its track record, ST does sometimes provide a small list of publications--but even if five or six book placements weren't a very poor record for an agency that has been in business in its current form for nearly three years, research shows that the "sales" ST claims are either for self-published books or for books placed with small publishers like Behler that don't require authors to be agented. And I'm not aware of any scripts that ST may have sold.
- Victoria
www.victoriastrauss.com
www.writerbeware.com |
writersagent
Hunger Member
Post Number:
93
Registered: 05-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, April 20, 2004 - 06:38 pm: | |
I will be getting out of the agent business this coming May.
It's been stressful, depressing, and downright insane.
http://www.literaryagent.2ya.com |
writersagent
Hunger Member
Post Number:
94
Registered: 05-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 21, 2004 - 11:44 am: | |
Victoria is right.
ANY agency or publisher that offers to "bind" your manuscript is NOT standard practice.
I have always asked for just the first five pages, or sometimes the first chapter only, loose leaf, no staples or paper clips.
Binding a manuscript is totally out of line. It should be stopped immediately or the world will be destroyed. (lol) |
priceless1
Hunger Member
Post Number:
69
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 21, 2004 - 01:35 pm: | |
Victoria, thanks for the heads up. Mark queried in the traditional format, meaning he only sent me the first three chapters (unbound), bio and synopsis as per our website. One submission I tossed, but the other one had some promise. I haven't heard from him as yet after requesting the manuscript, which is quite unusual. You would think if he was trying to sell a ms, he'd be all over my email like a big dog.
The letter I received from him states that they have a booth at the Book Tech in Chicago. Should be interesting to look him since we'll be there as well.
Many thanks!
Lynn
Lynn
lynnprice.net
|
Laurel Johnson
Unity Member
Post Number:
2875
Registered: 01-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 21, 2004 - 01:46 pm: | |
Every profession has its discouragements, pitfalls and bad guys. A big difference could be made in the world if people would treat everyone with the courtesy and consideration they like to receive from others.
I've lived long enough to know that is a pipe dream, but am just ignorant enough to think it would be nice. No one likes to be ignored or treated like a nonentity, icluding those who treat others that way. |
Herschel (Unregistered Guest)
Work-in-progress guest
Posted From: 68.169.126.238
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 22, 2004 - 03:35 am: | |
Victoria who in the hell are you to tell somebody how to run their business? As long as the agency in question is upfront with their fees and the author agrees what is the problem? Do you expect agencies to be carbon copies of each other? What law has this agency broken? You're the biggest scam and shill in the business. You constantly preach that money should flow to authors yet you promote many POD publishers and subsidiary presses who charge their authors to be published. Not to mention the bank account reducing non essential products and books sold via Writer's Digest. Why don't you state the facts as they are? That few authors will ever make any big money or enough to live on by writing books regardless of who publishes their books. People like you constantly tout the merits of the major publishers when you know full-well that they only promote a handful of the books they publish and that most writers, like the ones who post on this forum, has as much chance of landing a deal with them as I have winning the Mega or Big Bucks lotteries.
Lynn, your reasoning is all wrong. Why shouldn't a writer have an agent to review and work (oversee) a legally binding contract with your company? Because your company doesn't require an agent are authors suppose to trust you without question and blindly sign some contract you hammered out? What about other deals...audio, foreign rights...etc? Is it that you don't want them to have an agent so you can take advantage of them like PA took advantage of many agentless and authors with bad agents in its early days? And how do you know that these agents who submit to your company haven't tried the big companies? Answer: you don't.
Stacy, you're on the wrong site. You're much too knowledgeable and advanced in your writing skills and thinking to associate with this bunch of losers and never do wells. Ten years from this same basket of crabs will still be posting on this site complaining and pulling each other back into the basket. Misery loves company. |
Todd Hunter
Unity Member
Post Number:
1421
Registered: 02-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 22, 2004 - 05:29 am: | |
Oddly, I've collected a few books from the Writer's Digest series (the "Howdunit" series), and I'd say they were rather informative...and oddly enough, better priced than my own...heh...
"Is it that you don't want them to have an agent so you can take advantage of them like PA took advantage of many agentless and authors with bad agents in its early days?"
It's interesting one would bring this up...because it proves the point (in a roundabout sort of way): many "authors with bad agents" ended up with PA...and what did it really buy an author? Not only had they been taken advantage of, but they also had to fork over money for the agent...
I don't believe (nor is it my intent to say) that Lynn is trying to "take advantage" of anyone...just so the populace doesn't jump me...
I'd much rather have a lawyer versed in publishing law go over a contract (which I didn't do the first time, and hindsight is always 20/20) than an agent, who by definition wants to make money...the difference between a good and a bad agent is whether they make money: 1) by trying to place the novel with publishers in the chance that the author (and by proxy, the agent) will strike gold, or 2) by placing the novel in a location where it's assured of acceptance, and cashing their check. |
Sorry ST (Unregistered Guest)
Work-in-progress guest
Posted From: 68.63.93.167
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 22, 2004 - 06:33 am: | |
Actually, "dumping authors" with tiny publishers, start-up publishers, and pseudo publishers like PA is one of the marks of the "new scammer." Writers are becoming a tiny tiny tiny tiny bit more informed since the coming of the Internet as information is out there and one thing more new writers are asking is -- "have you sold any books?" With an agency like ST (or any of the folks who dumped folks on PA's doorstep), the agency stood ZERO chance of real sales to known publishers. They have no connections. They have no experience. And they have no interest in investing the time and expense in getting connnections and experience before fleecing writers of their money in exchange for promises of submissions to the big publishers -- submissions they don't actually intend to make (since the money the agency saves by not submitting to publishers who won't read the submission anyway is money they could be pocketing -- so they do). Then they dump them on someone like PA (thought that may be thinning down since PA's bad rep is getting a little well known) or some innocent start-up company like Behler.
Most publishers won't even read submissions by scammy agencies for a number of reasons (including the rarity of a submission being publishable quality) -- but one GOOD REASON is that they don't want to support scummy agencies. As honest and earnest new publishers buy books from scummy agents, they risk being painted with the same brush. PA (though far from a good publisher) has been attacked many times as being in some kind of kick-back deal with scammers like Janet Kay and Melanie Mills -- even though that is very unlikely. But when you make business deals with cheats, it cannot CANNOT improve your own reputation.
So, it would be in the best interest of ANY start-up publisher to research the agencies who are submitting to them. You're risking your reputation and you may be helping someone cheat authors. Many scammers talk very nicely when they want you to do something. I've seen Melanie Mills praised for her nice talk when trying to lure someone in. You can't judge a con man by how nice he is -- check them out. The reputation you save may be your own. |
Dennis Collins
Mindsight Moderator
Post Number:
831
Registered: 06-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 22, 2004 - 06:37 am: | |
Ever wonder what ingredients go in to the making of a troll?
It's definitely not a grasp on the facts or the spirit of the conversation and it certainly can't be courage or intelligence.
To begin with the AAR, the most "distinguished" agents in the industry have firm rule about fees. They are simply not allowed.
Many small and respected publishers will accept agented or unagented material at the authors descretion. If you look at places like The Poisoned Pen Press, you can see that they accept submissions in a variety of ways, work hand in hand with the big guys like Berkley Crime, and encourage their authors to have their contracts professionally scrutinized.
Those who constructively post here are not looking for a shoulder to cry on. They are exploring options and ideas in a world in which many are not well versed. They're looking for answers, not sympathy.
And... They always sign their real name...
Dennis Collins |
Laurel Johnson
Unity Member
Post Number:
2878
Registered: 01-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 22, 2004 - 06:38 am: | |
Maybe I haven't had enough coffee yet this morning, but I found it interesting that Herschel's tirade would follow my post about treating others with courtesy and consideration.
But it proved my point. My wish for more kindness and respect in the world is a pipedream.
|
Herschel (Unregistered Guest)
Work-in-progress guest
Posted From: 68.169.126.238
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 22, 2004 - 06:55 am: | |
Dennis the AAR is a private group. Their rules have nothing to do with the LAW; they only have to do with the criteria for entry into their private organization. BTW, many authors have taken AAR agents to court for mishandling their affairs and excessive billings. No they don't charge upfront but they sure hit you in the pocketbook in the end.
And just because a publisher states you don't need an agent to submit to them an author would be a fool to do so with the benefit of an agent or a literary lawyer to oversee the contract and exploit the other rights in the contract. You don't need a lawyer to try your own case in court Dennis and Lynn, you can do it yourself pro se, but unless you know the law in question for your case you would be a fool to do so. |
Perry Comer
Unity Member
Post Number:
1301
Registered: 04-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 22, 2004 - 07:29 am: | |
axes to grind
heads to fall
reason to why
just so others can stand tall
http://www.pacwriter.netfirms.com/ |
Gloria Marlow
Wisdom Member
Post Number:
871
Registered: 04-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 22, 2004 - 07:51 am: | |
I saw the name "Herschel" and it instantly brought back memories of a very kind man I knew who died before his time and left the world a better place. It's beautiful to me how just the mention of a name can bring back a wealth of memories of someone. I hope when I die, there are memories of happiness and kindness and that it can be said I left the world a better place, even if it's only in a very small way.
Anyway, I have nothing to add to this argument...what would be the use? So, I'm going to be quite now. |
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