| Author |
Message |
    
Olen Armstrong
Wandering Member
Post Number:
187
Registered: 06-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 22, 2004 - 08:53 am: |   |
I tend to keep my mouth shut more than not, but an observation is in order.
From what I've seen, Victoria Strauss and Dave Kuzminski don't tell others how to run their businesses.
They inform prospective customers (dare we say: marks??) about how those businesses are being run, in their opinions.
The customers (marks??) decide how much weight to lend to those opinions and whether to do business...or not. I don't see a problem here. They're much like movie critics. They offer opinions, we listen or ignore as is our wont.
To paraphrase the Bard: "Methinks Herschel doth protest too much."
Later,
Olen A. |
Claudia Turner VanLydegraf
Mindsight Moderator
Post Number:
1114
Registered: 06-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 22, 2004 - 08:55 am: | |
Hershel,
So is what you are saying, now please correct me if I am getting this wrong, PEOPLE SHOULD ONLY WRITE A BOOK OF ANY KIND IF THEY CAN SUPPORT THOSE AGENTS AND PUBLISHERS AND LITERARY LAYWERS WHO FIND THEIR BOOK TO BE GOOD ENOUGH by way of that person who wrote said book forking over thousands of dollars for those services, prepublishing? IF that is the case and we all need to have a good literary lawyer look at every thing first, and a good agent to submit to good houses, and who might charge fees up the wazoo after getting a book accepted by a midlist publisher and charge those fees at that time, and an editor that costs at least a buck a page for a decent editing job, and a publicist, who will charge about 5,000 on up to even get a book into 1 or maybe 2 paying markets, then everyone who writes would have to be worth some heavy bucks. I am very sure that most here would like to have one of those big contracts with mega bucks coming at them, but then again, many would happily just like to be published by someone that is honest and trying to do everything in their power to make that author a realitvely comfortable living. But, we can all dream, right..... I know that I am going to be happily published by someone who has my best interest at heart, even though that company may not be the biggest in its class YET. Who is to say that someday soon, that company and my book will both be better of for the baby steps they take together.
It also seems to me that you picked on Victoria quite unfairly, and on the rest of the posters here, many who do have works being published by small houses, out of the side of your mouth. Victoria doesn't accept any money and certainly not lots of love for the work she does in trying to help every author who comes across her desk with a positive answer and something that is well thought out to give that person some sort of hope. Can you say the same for yourself?
Those who are regular posters here are not always crying losers, especially anymore, with many of our authors being put to print by some mighty fine little houses that are really trying to do the job right. What more and better can anyone ask for, than to have someone in their corner who is actively trying to help those authors without a lot of capitol outlay by them. And yes, it is a possibility that someone might hit a lotto, if they keep on submitting and get fortunate enough to land a good author friendly contract with a company who is dedicated to treat the author the fairest and most profitable way for both of them, not just a one sided affair like PA and other places have done.
Anyway, just thought that I'd ask.....
Claudia |
Olen Armstrong
Wandering Member
Post Number:
188
Registered: 06-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 22, 2004 - 08:57 am: | |
Oh and I missed one.
Herschel, if you MUST use tired cliches, at least use them correctly.
It's "ne'er do well" not "never do well". Sorry I don't know the etymology of the phrase.
I try to avoid using tired cliches.
Have a nice day,
Olen A
|
Jennifer Lynn
Unity Member
Post Number:
1197
Registered: 03-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 22, 2004 - 08:58 am: | |
That's okay Gloria, I saw the name Herschel and immediately thought of chocolate!
Jennifer Lynn
www.jenniferlynn.ca |
priceless1
Hunger Member
Post Number:
73
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 22, 2004 - 09:08 am: | |
My, my, seem to have hit a chord with Herschel, haven't we?
"Lynn, your reasoning is all wrong. Why shouldn't a writer have an agent to review and work (oversee) a legally binding contract with your company?"
Herschel, I equate the whole agent/writer/publisher scenario to getting my car serviced. Am I going to get an oil change from a proctologist? No, I'm going to seek out a professional. If I, as a writer, want to insure that my contract is fair and legal, I'll hire a literary LAWYER, not an agent. I would only hire an agent with the express desire to be placed with one of the larger publishing companies that require an agent.
"Is it that you don't want them to have an agent so you can take advantage of them like PA took advantage of many agentless and authors with bad agents in its early days?"
Now, this is just plain laughable. We urge anyone to whom we issue a contract to have their contracts looked at by a lawyer. I have no problem with anyone having an agent. It's a free world. Having said that, I was nonplussed at the fact that this man submitted to us since we are still a small publishing house. I did feel sorry for the authors involved because I didn't feel they were getting the best representation from their agent. Whether these authors had to pay for the agent or not isn't my concern, nor is it anyone else's for that matter. What does concern me is that they're being taken for a ride. I've never known a reputable agent that charged for their services. In my way of thinking it just smells of a scam.
"And how do you know that these agents who submit to your company haven't tried the big companies? Answer: you don't."
You're right, I don't. But personally speaking, if I had paid some agent to represent me and the best he could do was a small publishing company or PA, then I'd say I'd been ripped off. He took my money and did the least amount of work for it. I've seen it happen too many times. On the other side of the coin, I've seen reputable agents place an unknown author in very respectable mid-size publishing houses to the immense satisfaction of all parties.
Rest assured, I'm not here to foster any arguments, but to give an opinion from the publisher's side of the fence.
Lynn
Lynn
lynnprice.net
|
priceless1
Hunger Member
Post Number:
74
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 22, 2004 - 09:11 am: | |
"So, it would be in the best interest of ANY start-up publisher to research the agencies who are submitting to them."
Thank you, Sorry ST. I take your advice to heart.
Lynn
Lynn
lynnprice.net
|
Bill Nelson
Hunger Member
Post Number:
78
Registered: 10-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 22, 2004 - 09:17 am: | |
Gosh, Jenn,
You thought of chocolate!?! I thought of 'phony name from someone who
wants to hide so he can lash out and feel superior without having to back up anything he spews."
Funny how different people have different perspectives, huh?
bn |
Jennifer Lynn
Unity Member
Post Number:
1199
Registered: 03-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 22, 2004 - 09:20 am: | |
Hey, I have my priorities!!!!
Jennifer Lynn
www.jenniferlynn.ca |
Herschel (Unregistered Guest)
Work-in-progress guest
Posted From: 68.169.126.238
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 22, 2004 - 09:28 am: | |
There are only so many major and traditional publishers for a particular genre Lynn. If an agent fails to place a book at any of these majors what should he/she do? Give up? Which is precisely what the large famous agencies do; if they can't place your book with a major house they shelve it...no more submissions. Smaller agencies don't give up on a title, they continue to submit the book to smaller publishers, something you seem to have a major problem with.
You really don't think much of your publishing company do you? If you feel that an agent is wasting his/her time submitting to your company then why would any author want to be publish by you? You're saying that if a great book came across your desk you wouldn't have a clue as to how to market it and it would go unnoticed. Talk about kicking your ownself in the ass. |
John Laurence Robinson
Wisdom Member
Post Number:
551
Registered: 01-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 22, 2004 - 09:36 am: | |
Daggone...I'm still pondering the "crabs pulling other crabs back in the bucket" thing or however it went (I don't feel like scrolling up and finding it). The phrase rings a distant bell; seems like I remember another troll using the selfsame wording. But hang me for a pig-stealer if I can remember 'zackly who. All I can recall was it got quite ugly after a while. Anybody remember that?
John |
Jennifer Lynn
Unity Member
Post Number:
1203
Registered: 03-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 22, 2004 - 09:46 am: | |
Dunno JLR... I'm still dreaming about chocolate.... Hersheys Kisses..mmmmmmm....
Jennifer Lynn
www.jenniferlynn.ca |
Claudia Turner VanLydegraf
Mindsight Moderator
Post Number:
1115
Registered: 06-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 22, 2004 - 09:46 am: | |
Herschel,
GET A LIFE and leave this subject alone. You obviously don't know as much as you think you do about this subject, and are not able to even fathom what people are telling you. It is the same "old twist 'em up with my words, so that they don't know what I am talking about" scenario. You are not making much sense, my friend (I say loosely). You know you can't tread both sides of the fence without thorough knowledge from the ground up on each side. Until you are ready to come out with who you are and why you have blatantly stuck your nose in here, I don't think anyone will pay you much more attention than they would an itty-bitty gnat that keeps buzzing around a face trying to pick a fight with an eyebrow hair.
Claudia |
Herschel (Unregistered Guest)
Work-in-progress guest
Posted From: 68.169.126.238
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 22, 2004 - 09:59 am: | |
Claudia you're typical of the dummies that post junk and bs on this forum. If you had a clue you'll be busy writing and promoting your books and not crying like a loser here. Did PA f--k up your writing career too? Are you still going to be whining about PA 20 years from now? You and the others here need to get on with your lives cause legally all of you put together couldn't bust a grape. |
priceless1
Hunger Member
Post Number:
75
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 22, 2004 - 10:40 am: | |
"You really don't think much of your publishing company do you?"
Oh, you couldn't be more wrong, Hersch. I'm exceedingly proud of our little company. We've exploded with the fabulous works of many talented authors. But I'm realistic enough to know that I'm not Simon & Schuster either. Not yet, at least. But, I'm not ignorant to the fact that we are an unknown house, and as such, need to be careful of our reputation.
"If you feel that an agent is wasting his/her time submitting to your company then why would any author want to be publish by you?"
An author is going to submit to us because we offer a great deal. I have no problem with an agent submitting to us. It's just that the author isn't going to see as much money in the long run for the reason that we don't have the big name yet. We can't offer thousands of dollars in advances, and we're still getting our name out to the bookstores. I'm putting myself into the author's shoes because I am one.
If I've gone with an agent it's for the desire to be published with a large company. We aren't large yet, so why try to brag about something we're not? I've seen publishing companies that make great claims and they're false. I'm terribly concerned about our reputation, and dealing with questionable agents is something that I don't need.
"You're saying that if a great book came across your desk you wouldn't have a clue as to how to market it and it would go unnoticed."
Hmm. I just scrolled back over my reply to you and failed to find any reference that I made that comment. We have signed 16 authors whom I feel have incredible potential. And yes, we do know how to market it. Marketing was never a part of this discussion. Unscrupulous agents were the topic de jour.
"Talk about kicking your ownself in the ass."
LOL. Okay, now you're just getting silly. I see you just want to fight, so I'll decline to partake in your fantasy. Have a great day and best of luck to you in your endeavors.
Lynn
Lynn
lynnprice.net
|
Herschel (Unregistered Guest)
Work-in-progress guest
Posted From: 68.169.126.238
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 22, 2004 - 10:44 am: | |
Good answers Lynn |
Gloria Marlow
Wisdom Member
Post Number:
872
Registered: 04-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 22, 2004 - 10:47 am: | |
It's funny to me that Herschel is the one who brought PA up when no one else was even talking about it.
Well great, John, now, Jenn's thinking of chocolate and I'm thinking of a crab boil. Lots of blue crabs, boiled in a big pot over a fire with some Old Bay seasoning bags floating around in the water. They have some mighty fine meat in them. Better yet, we'll just throw in some shrimp, new potatoes, corn on the cob and sausage along with the crabs and we'll be set to go.
I think it's lunchtime. And thanks to Jenn, I'll be having a Hershey's bar.
Gloria |
John Laurence Robinson
Wisdom Member
Post Number:
552
Registered: 01-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 22, 2004 - 11:02 am: | |
King crab legs with drawn butter...baked potatoes with sour cream...asparagus spears with Hollandaise sauce...pecan pie for dessert...yowza...food of the gods!*G* I have a birthday coming up soon, so I'd better start asking my wife now if she's up for cooking me some'o'dat!
John |
Claudia Turner VanLydegraf
Mindsight Moderator
Post Number:
1117
Registered: 06-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 22, 2004 - 11:17 am: | |
Hersch,
I wasn't crying at all, like a loser or anything else. Personally, I don't really believe in crying, I take another course of action to get where I want to go, one way or the other. I very seldom cry in my beer, as the saying goes, I would much rather do something better about getting to the point I want to be, whether it be around another bend or taking a course different than the one I previously choose. I didn't bring PA into this conversation to be slung crap, at. And NO, PA didn't F**k up my writing career, actually MY AGENT did that all by herself, with the acceptance from PA as a topper to the icing. Or in reality, I did it myself, because I signed the stinking contract with PA in the first place, but I can claim naivet'e at the time, as there wasn't as much information available out and all over the place as there is today. YOU were the one that brought up PA, this was a decent conversation about agents, publishing, and questions regarding those two entities until you stuck your itty-bitty gnats ass opinions in here trying to stir everyone up. Go play somewhere else, unless you can add something good to the conversation. You weren't being helpful, you were being demeaning and snobbish in your approach to this board and the people who post here.
Claudia |
Victoria Strauss
Awareness Member
Post Number:
42
Registered: 11-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 22, 2004 - 04:35 pm: | |
Herschel is the same person who shows up here from time to time under various names to berate the people who hang out here...I recognize the crack about me promoting subsidy publishers (he explained to me once why he thinks I'm doing this, but I'm still not clear on the logic).
- Victoria
www.victoriastrauss.com
www.writerbeware.com |
Perry Comer
Unity Member
Post Number:
1302
Registered: 04-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 22, 2004 - 05:27 pm: | |
A troll by any other name stinks like a troll
http://www.pacwriter.netfirms.com/ |
|
Closed: New threads not accepted on this page