| Author |
Message |
    
Mary Gibbs
Wandering Member
Post Number:
108
Registered: 06-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, April 25, 2004 - 05:50 am: |   |
Teena,
I went to the first (& hopefully not last) Ann Arbor Book Festival yesterday. It was interesting to see the different bookstores, & I noticed a couple of subsidy publishers there. A friend of mine had his book published by one, so I wanted to see it out of curiosity. (His book is called Artrex: Dark Hero, pubbed by iUniverse). I hope I get around to reading it soon! Auditions for our big stunt show are the second Tuesday in May, so I've been working hard at preparing for that. EEK! Plus, I start training on the WHIP (yes, a bull whip) this coming Tuesday.
And on a side note (for anyone interested)...it's not wise to attack someone else's intelligence when you can't form a sentence yourself. So, if you're going to attempt to insult, at least know that "They got schools for you to go to Joyce" is wrong in so many ways that you're making the people you're trying to insult...laugh!
So sorry, I had to throw that in. It's what irks me most when trolls & fools come barging in. If you're going to insult, please...try to prove you're more intelligent (or educated)! All right, I'll try to be a good girl for now on.
Did I mention the whip? HA! |
Herschel (Unregistered Guest)
Work-in-progress guest
Posted From: 68.169.126.238
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, April 25, 2004 - 06:48 am: | |
Mary Gibbs professional writing for the public is not about perfect grammar it's about writing so the reader keeps reading. One reason most of you will never get a deal with a major publisher is because you write like they taught you to write in high school and college, which is not the type of writing the major houses want nor is it the type of writing that keep people interested.
You people are hopeless complainers and whiners who don't have a clue about the profession you're trying to make a living at. You can read all the how-to books on writing you want and still be up a creek without a paddle. Those Writer's Markets promoted books with the same slants done ad naseum are written by writers who prey on gullable suckers like the ones who post on this forum.
Why would a bookstore want to stock hundreds of books by unknown writers? The reason your books don't sell is not because they're published by a POD or quasi POD publisher it's because there is no money behind them. You would have the same problem if a traditional publisher had put your book out. They're not going to promote an unknown either; it takes money to make money! Until one of you become somebody or write a book that somebody is willing to put some big bucks behind, I don't care who publishes your book, it's not going to sell. |
Laurel Johnson
Unity Member
Post Number:
2896
Registered: 01-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, April 25, 2004 - 06:50 am: | |
My most recent books read were a widely divergent mis.
Evenings at Five by Gail Godwin. It was the first of her books I've read. It was well written and was fiction that I suspect had a large percentage of non fiction in it.
I read a dandy sci fi fantasy tale called Drifters by Michael Silverhawk.
And a wonderful book of poetry by Charles Fishman named Country of Memory. |
Todd Hunter
Unity Member
Post Number:
1438
Registered: 02-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, April 25, 2004 - 06:51 am: | |
In response to Teena asking how the weekend is going:
Just went to a garage sale down the street yesterday, where someone was selling their entire collection of books (I have no idea why)...
Picked up a few new authors I'd never read before, but figured for $2 each (hardcover), it would be hard to go wrong...
On the other side of the equation, I started a new short story yesterday, and am doing some editing for a friend... |
Joy Lee Rutter
Hunger Member
Post Number:
75
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, April 25, 2004 - 06:56 am: | |
Herschel, you raise some good points (most of which we are aware) but the derogatory name calling isn't necessary, is it?
Thank you,
Joy Lee Rutter
"A Disturbing Presence" |
Gloria Marlow
Wisdom Member
Post Number:
887
Registered: 04-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, April 25, 2004 - 07:13 am: | |
I'm reading Blessings by Anna Quindlen right this moment. For the last few years, I've found it increasingly hard to find books I can get lost in, but this year I have read a few that were superb. I can't remember all of the author's names and one of them I can't remember the title, but they were still good. The Puzzlebark Tree...that was a good book. The Stone Flower Garden (I think that was the name) by Deborah Smith...like all her books, that was good. I've read several by Susan Wiggs, one called Only By Your Touch by Catherine Anderson...I think I've read a couple of her other books lately, too. There was also another one I remember distinctly, but can't for the life of me remember the title to or the author. Also, The Absence of Nectar and The Prince of Dark Places (I think) by Kathy Heppinstall(I think that's her name)....both very different and very memorable.
I buy a book every Thursday or Friday night to enjoy over the weekend.
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Todd Hunter
Unity Member
Post Number:
1439
Registered: 02-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, April 25, 2004 - 07:15 am: | |
Apologies to all the folks who are begging us to leave this alone:
"Why would a bookstore want to stock hundreds of books by unknown writers? The reason your books don't sell is not because they're published by a POD or quasi POD publisher it's because there is no money behind them. You would have the same problem if a traditional publisher had put your book out. They're not going to promote an unknown either; it takes money to make money! Until one of you become somebody or write a book that somebody is willing to put some big bucks behind, I don't care who publishes your book, it's not going to sell."
Had a traditional publisher put my book out:
a) My book would be competitively priced. Therefore, more people would be inclined to purchase the book. When people are asked to pay $17 for a little over 100 pages, you'd be surprised (though I'm not) how many people put the book down and decline the offer. On top of that, if people don't believe they're getting their money's worth, they're not going to tell their friends about it, even if the book is an excellent read.
b) A sales force (paid by the publisher) would be hitting the bookstores in various parts of the nation, with a catalogue of books available for them to order. I don't mind doing this myself, as evidenced by the number of stores in my area which have (at one time or another) had stock of my book. However, one notices that it is restricted to "my area". Especially in this era, of the worldwide internet, books need to be in places where people can get to them. If you tell people in all four corners about the book, and they have to go buy it off the internet, it's not as simple as if they can just go down to their local bookstore and pick up a copy.
c) The book would have been thoroughly edited before it went out the door. People enjoy a good book, but if a good book isn't thoroughly edited, the reader is going to notice. If this happens, you can kiss word-of-mouth promotion good-bye. I'm not speaking of a few minor typos or errors...but when you have major issues with a book...plot gaps, and the like.
d) The books would have a return policy, which would make it much easier to set up events. Stores could then order as many books as they'd like for an event, and return any unsold copies. There would be no reason for a store to have to squibble with the author over ordering in 5 copies, or worse, for the author to purchase unbelievable amounts of books in order to stock the event themselves (or on the other side, beg and plead with the store to order copies, and agree to purchase unsold copies from them). Heck, I'm still waiting for payment from one store's corporate office for books I sold during a signing seven months ago. Why should an author have to do that?
(and on a related note, I've heard from a few B&N stores that the corporate office is trying to hedge away from 'author-supplied' events...should be interesting)
"it takes money to make money!"
By this logic, we should all go out and sign up with a vanity press...
I hear one of the vanity presses actually has competitive pricing...
too bad the other three problems I mentioned would still be there...
Again, apologies to the rest of the folks asking for us to ignore. |
Yawn (Unregistered Guest)
Work-in-progress guest
Posted From: 68.63.93.167
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, April 25, 2004 - 07:19 am: | |
For any who might be confused by the "new writers with major publishers don't get in bookstores" foolishness, that simply isn't so. I know a fine young woman named Sara Gruen. She wrote a book. She sold it to Harper Collins. They paid her enough money that I expect a 1000 PA authors could have divided up the young woman's advance and ended up with more money than they will ever see from PA royalties. Then Harper Collins printed 400,000 paperback copies of this book and distributed them everywhere -- you see, it is a mass market paperback and they didn't print them for entertainment -- it they print them, they work their butts off to put them in stores. On the week it came out, many of us saw it nestled in the "new paperback" displays at the major bookstores, keeping cosy company with John Grisham and others who catch reader eyes. Harper Collins sent the book to reviewers at Publisher's Weekly and Booklist -- so it'll get into libraries, even though it's a lowly mass market paperback. The libraries will buy it -- and many already have. It's a charming book. If you like books with horses, you might want to stop by your Wal-Mart or your CVS (folks have found it there, too) and see if they still have a copy. It hasn't been out very long...a couple weeks now, but it's already getting hard to find it outside of bookstores. Once a non-bookstore outlet sells out, they move on to the next author rather than reorder...but that is still 25 books per outlet sold with no hustle, no begging, no *effort* from the author.
Sales are doing well enough that she's already appeared on one bestseller list -- though, granted, not near the top...she is a new author, after all. I personally checked on availability of her book near me and found it in Target, Wal-Mart, and Borders. Last I looked, Target had sold out. Now, this Target won't reorder, they don't work that way for mass market paperback, but it was there, Target sold them all.
I have two other friends who just sold their new novels. One to St. Martins. One to Dutton. They got tidy advances and they'll be released in hardback and when they hit the bookstores, I'll let you know so you can go look at them. They will be there. Their publishers know that printing a book and not making sure it gets into bookstores is not a way to make a profit selling books (unless you're selling them to the author). So they *will* be in the bookstores.
Three first novels. None of the authors were celebrities. None of them had "connections" in the industry. All three spent serious time learning their craft, learning the business, not listening to rubes who spout foolishness, and never giving up. All three had hit some rough rough rough spots -- but they didn't give up and go the short-cut road.
However, going the short-cut road doesn't mean you're dead in the water either. Two authors from this very board got sidetracked into PA but now have excellent publishers. Others are working with small publishers -- that's a gamble, it may pay off big because these folks researched their little publishers and know they are dealing with integrity but many start-ups fail -- they just do. I have high hopes for these.
Publishing isn't an easy mountain to climb -- but many here TRIED easy and they didn't like it. After all, if you don't have the stamina to keep working toward the kind of publishers who will put your books into the hands of readers, then maybe you didn't have the stamina to write the kind of book those readers want. Learning to write well takes time -- there are folks here who can step up and talk about how much time they put into learning, polishing, and growing as writers. Why should anyone expect that finding the right publisher will be any quicker or easier?
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Teena Haywood
Awareness Member
Post Number:
23
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, April 25, 2004 - 07:50 am: | |
Hi Fellow Authors:
As most you have probably guessed by now, I posted: "So-o-o, how is everyone's weekend going? Are you relaxing or working on a new manuscript? Read any good novels, lately? Care to post them?" to get our conversation back on a more positive note.
However, it seems as if the "Trolls" are going to continue to attack and are not going to let that happen. So the beat goes on!
Teena
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Dennis Collins
Mindsight Moderator
Post Number:
833
Registered: 06-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, April 25, 2004 - 08:13 am: | |
The "trolls" seem to all share the same character deficiency, and that would be the unwillingness to identify themselves and state their credentials.
How can there be any credibilty at all attached to statements made by someone who HIDES from you?
A person with no name is a non-person.
I get a kick out of how our latest troll can make up his/her/it's own "facts" to substantiate what it/he/she is saying.
If you can't show your face, you must be either a fugitive, a complete phony, or a common coward.
I seem to remember seeing this little dog run over and pull back a curtain exposing a man who was frantically cranking handles on a special effects machine, looking around nervously and saying, "Don't pay any attention to that man behind the curtain."
Gotta wonder if this guy signs his checks when he pays the light bill, eh? |
Jennifer Lynn
Unity Member
Post Number:
1221
Registered: 03-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, April 25, 2004 - 08:18 am: | |
(Tosses a lil Hershey's Kiss at Teena)
Good morning!! I'm relaxing before heading out the door to work--last day at this position before the promotion kicks in. I haven't had a lot of time to read lately, but just finished 'Act of Love' by our very own Sophie Simonet, and now I've started on 'Ties That Bind' by Philip Margolin.
I've not written much lately, work stress and a new relationship have kept me pretty busy, but I am thigh high deep (not hard, I'm only five foot nuttin') into my fifth novel, a romantic adventure with pirates and mercenaries and mayhem.. oh boy! I'm looking forward to finishing because I've got the bug to start something new again.
As for the 'beat going on'... dance a bit, eat some chocolate and enjoy the show. It usually gets better before it goes away.
Jenn
Jennifer Lynn
www.jenniferlynn.ca |
priceless1
Hunger Member
Post Number:
96
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, April 25, 2004 - 08:53 am: | |
"Please share what you're reading. Perhaps, it will be a book that one of your fellow authors would like to purchase."
Right now I'm knee-deep in reading manuscripts, and I must say this experience is most rewarding. The level of professionalism that goes into most of these submissions is humbling and a sheer delight. I know I'm not exactly answering your question, Teena, but the statement I wanted to make is how much I wish for all this talent to make it big because they deserve it. Whether they chose to sign with us or someone else, it is a true honor to have received these authors' works.
Touching someone doesn't require that it be a Tom Clancy or John Grisham (though I think his writing has taken a nosedive in recent years). I've grabbed my Kleenex box more than once while reading a manuscript and laughed myself silly. I know we aren't Simon & Schuster yet, but I'd like to think the stuff we're putting out there is of equal or superior quality.
Happy Sunday, all,
Lynn
Lynn
lynnprice.net
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Herschel (Unregistered Guest)
Work-in-progress guest
Posted From: 68.169.126.238
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, April 25, 2004 - 09:25 am: | |
Yawn, those new writers you refer to with major publishers were given good deals and not signed as simply list authors. Most new authors aren't given all the promo and big advances you mentioned. I was speaking of the norm not the exceptions. If a publisher gets thousands of books distributed to bookstores around the country you better believe that they are going to spend hundreds of thousands in promotion as well. While the authors you mentioned in your post were not celebrities or known when they signed their deal it's obvious that their respective publishers are attempting to make them so...and that takes money. There are hundreds of other authors signed by St. Martins and Simon & Schuster who will never earn back the small advance they were given and will be dropped after their book is put out-of-print. You're talking exceptions; i'm talking norms. But I appreciated your post. BTW, I have never appreciated anything that Perry Comer and some others here ever posted. The man doesn't have clue one.
Jay the people on this forum don't respond to outsiders telling them anything very well and resort to name calling, which makes the outsider get down and nasty with them. I can and will if necessary get just as foul as Claudia. They shouldn't worry though, CEW will banned me as soon as he has the time. He bans everybody who's critical of this forum and its relentless attacks on PA. |
priceless1
Hunger Member
Post Number:
98
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, April 25, 2004 - 09:32 am: | |
"the people on this forum don't respond to outsiders telling them anything very well and resort to name calling"
Not so. I've been treated extremely well since day one. Whether people agreed with whatever I had to say or not, I have always been treated with the utmost respect.
Lynn
Lynn
lynnprice.net
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mark dirschel
Wandering Member
Post Number:
115
Registered: 01-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, April 25, 2004 - 09:33 am: | |
i dispute the statement labeling joyce as either a dummy or an old biddy. she is neither.
your insults are out-of-line and ill-informed.
- mark |
Joyce Scarbrough
Awareness Member
Post Number:
22
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, April 25, 2004 - 09:59 am: | |
Disclaimer: My posting of this review had nothing to do with Mark's defense of me. I had planned to post it as soon as I read Teena's question about what we've read lately.
The last book I read was Simplicity by Mark Dirschel, and here's my review:
Trip along with me for a moment and imagine a vampire with a poet's soul who will unequivocally disprove the myth that men don't feel love as deeply as women. Intrigued? Meet Patrick, the undead hero of Simplicity, who sentences himself to Hell for the woman he loves. Patrick knows more about selflessness, unconditional love, charisma, and seduction than do most romantic leading men.
When he meets Lori, Patrick is a filthy vagrant whose daily beggings are spent on food only if there's enough left after he buys his beloved bottle, and Lori is a damaged beauty who keeps trying to kill herself but never quite succeeds. They spend what is supposed to be Lori's last night alive talking together under the bridge where Patrick lives and from which Lori jumps--right into the arms of Van Pierre, a recruiter for Hell's army. When she returns to Patrick the next night and bids him drink from the dark man's chalice, he obeys without question because he loves her already, and they are plunged into the world of nightly bloodlust.
As horrified as they are by what they've become, they can't deny the thrill of their new powers. Patrick is more than willing to suffer every day while he sleeps and his soul returns to Hell to be tortured unmercifully by Pink, his personal demon, as long as he gets to be with Lori every night when he awakens. But Lori is still haunted by her life and continues to plan her own demise even though it means she will remain in Hell forever and will be leaving Patrick--the only man who has ever really loved her--alone for eternity.
Simplicity is like a 435-page paradox: one minute it's a gruesome peepshow of demonic torture sessions that revolted me more than Stephen King at his goriest, and the next it's a sensitive commentary on man's inhumanity to man and our deep-seated desire to be valued and loved for ourselves. I was just as moved by Patrick's quest for Lori's love as I was repulsed by the descriptions of his visits to Hell. I can't tell you how odd it feels to be inspired by the insights of a vampire, but Patrick's musings read like an essay on enlightenment. The thinking person's horror story, if you will.
And since vampires exist for eternity, I sure hope there's another journey into Patrick's world in our literary future.
Toyce
True Blue Forever
Read the first chapter at http://www.authorsden.com/joycelscarbrough1
See the hunk at http://www.southernbelleauthor.com/joycepersonalpage |
Teena Haywood
Awareness Member
Post Number:
25
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, April 25, 2004 - 10:09 am: | |
"The level of professionalism that goes into most of these submissions is humbling and a sheer delight. I know I'm not exactly answering your question, Teena, but the statement I wanted to make is how much I wish for all this talent to make it big because they deserve it. Whether they chose to sign with us or someone else, it is a true honor to have received these authors' works."
Lynn that's beautiful, keep up the good work. I truly appreciate your honesty, integrity and professionalism. Just keep your contagious smile.
Teena
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priceless1
Hunger Member
Post Number:
100
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, April 25, 2004 - 10:12 am: | |
Wow, Joyce. Amazing review. Having had the pleasure of meeting Mark, I can understand the sensitivity he injects into his writing. He's a tough-looking guy and has most believing he could rip off the doors of a VW bug. Heck maybe he can, but he also has very kind and sweet spirit about him; a quiet compassion that truly took me aback. I hope this doesn't make him gag, but these impressions really hit me between the eyes. Simply a nice man, and sounds like a good writer to boot.
Lynn
Lynn
lynnprice.net
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mark dirschel
Wandering Member
Post Number:
116
Registered: 01-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, April 25, 2004 - 10:29 am: | |
joyce -
thanx again for the review. i've saved it in my e-mail folder and i appreciate you posting it.
lynn -
i've never tried pulling the doors off a VW bug and never would - i love those things... used to own a bus and i miss it. finally sold it last year to a young kid eager to keep the spirit alive.
i HAVE knocked several doors off the hinges while working on psychiatric units. ain't nothing like a punk kid or an adult throwing a temper tantrum, trying to seal him- or herself in a room, only to have the door come crashing in. it helped them understand that no one was untouchable, especially on my watch and further, that such behavior would not happen again - since the door would be removed from the unit.
thanx for your kind words, though. it was a pleasure meeting you as well.
- mark
- geocities.com/edible_eye |
Gloria Marlow
Wisdom Member
Post Number:
888
Registered: 04-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, April 25, 2004 - 10:30 am: | |
Herschel, I was hoping not to actually speak to you, but I want to say one thing. Go back to some previous posts somewhere on this board and you will see that not so long ago, C.E. was accused of banning people for their "relentess attacks on PA" as you put it. If you read the posts that led to their banning, you will realize that it honestly has nothing to do with anyone's stance on P.A. --- rather, it has to do with an inability to treat others as intelligent individuals with their own individual thoughts, opinions, needs and desires. Resorting to personal insults and name-calling } help anyone's cause.
To everyone else, there are some things that simply aren't true, as I'm sure you know. For one, I frequent bookstores and I see names of authors I don't recognize all the time. I am partial to mass market paperbacks as you can tell from my list of what I've read lately. It seems that even though there are a few names that are always on the shelves, there are an equal amount by new authors or not so famous authors. It is an everchanging array of authors and there is no reason an author here can not end up there with the right amount of talent and perserverance.
So, it is spring and the trolls love to come out in springtime. Who can blame them? My spring is promising to be great, with the release of The Butterfly Game in May and the prospect of moving to a larger home with more land. I don't think even trolls can get on my nerves as bad as usual right now. Sorry about that, Herschel
(Message edited by gloria on April 25, 2004) |
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