| Author |
Message |
    
Molly Brent
Awareness Member
Post Number:
50
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 18, 2004 - 12:51 pm: |   |
Anybody know anything about Tate Publishing? It is a Christian publisher .........my book will be completely changed, title, cover etc.
It will be impossible to get the old title off Amazon and some of the online stores that sell used books.
I do have e mails from Ingram and Lightning Source that they have it cancelled so guess no more will be printed and sold.
I have decided to change it completely to get in in Christian book stores and I also will use a different name as author....instead of Molly Marx Brent......either Molly Marx or Molly Brent.....
If I go with Tate, I won't have to do anything......they will redo everything
and it will be a lot less work for me, which sounds good now. However, I want to ck them out completely first.
I have asked a lot of questions but for some reason, I am not as trusting as I used to be.
Thanks,
Molly
|
Molly Brent
Hunger Member
Post Number:
51
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 18, 2004 - 01:19 pm: | |
I have received a sample contract............if anyone wants to read it and give an opinion, I'd appreciate all help..........just e mail me.
Thanks, Molly |
Bill Nelson
Wandering Member
Post Number:
202
Registered: 10-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 18, 2004 - 05:07 pm: | |
Molly,
Whoa! Tate requires an initial investment of $3,985.50 from you!
Run for your life!
Talk to Toyce and get her to look over their website for you before you
write any checks.
Bill |
priceless1
Wandering Member
Post Number:
188
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 18, 2004 - 05:15 pm: | |
"It will be impossible to get the old title off Amazon and some of the online stores that sell used books."
Molly, this isn't true. We had a case where an author had his book with another publisher. He received the rights to his book back (his publisher had a simple contract that allowed for an instant rescind of the contract). His book kept on appearing in all the online stores, so we emailed the publisher and requested that they get his book removed.
They claimed they had put through notices to all appropriate parties, but after a month, no change. I wrote them again and implored them to remove the title because they were basically opening themselves up to fraud by advertising a book under their publishing firm and ISBN that they no longer had the rights to.
Oddly enough, within a week, all signs the title had disappeared. My point is, that you don't need to change the title. All correspondence has to originate from the publisher since they're the ones who put it up in the first place. But it can be done. It would be a crime to, in my opinion. I love the title and the book.
Unfortunately, I can't help you with the publisher, but best of luck to you! Your new publisher may have to do some footwork like I did to get your old publisher to remove it from the online stores.
Lynn
Lynn
behlerpublications.com
lynnprice.net
|
Molly Brent
Hunger Member
Post Number:
52
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 18, 2004 - 05:49 pm: | |
There are no new books, Lynn. (I hope)I have an e mail from Amazon saying they have, I think it's called Market Place that sells used books....
In fact, they put ads up for more used books......they said 2 in stock.....then one in stock.......then out of stock and now they have more in stock........
Barnes and Noble said they removed me...........several others say they have new and used books but I don't think they do....I have contacted them all.......
I have mailed everybody dozens of times and thought I made progress when I received an e mail from Ingram saying it had been removed finally......that was a long time after the termination contract and e mails from the publisher saying they had been notified......... they (the distributor and printer) said they had not been notifed.
Ingram or Lightning Source will not furnish any information except to say it is not available now. The nameless one says "there will be no more communication between us"
I'm not sure if I'm even ready to have it published again, I cut 30,000 words out of it the first time and there are some changes I want to make. I don't mind changing the title and have some great ideas but you know how busy I am with my regular job. I am thinking seriously about Tate because they will do the work for me.
All this has completely turned me off and I can't get interested again. My speciality is 400 words of satire and I can handle that and it's what I enjoy.....
My biggest fan will be greatly disappointed though.........Well, maybe not...I just told him something about the book and he yelled....."He stuck the sob out with the bases loaded." Maybe we will talk again after the college world series is over and before football starts.
Molly
|
Molly Brent
Hunger Member
Post Number:
53
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 18, 2004 - 06:21 pm: | |
Thanks for all the e mails....
I will NOT be signing a contract with them.
Molly |
Perry Comer
Unity Member
Post Number:
1406
Registered: 04-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 18, 2004 - 06:31 pm: | |
The book I had with an un-named publishing outfit is still available through the amazon marketplace. I, like you, did everything I could to get the book removed but the emails fell on deaf ears. I really suspect the un-named publisher has ties to the un-named, mysterious re-seller of books.
http://www.pacwriter.netfirms.com/ |
Molly Brent
Hunger Member
Post Number:
54
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 18, 2004 - 06:55 pm: | |
Perry, don't know if it will help or not but 12 of us went to the attorney general at the same time, mostly with this problem plus some others. One had some very good news and I can't share it, but a legal opinion was in her favor.
I haven't heard anything yet, but I forward all e mails to their office and they are investigating. We also contacted the BBB and FTC. I have noticed that some things have already been removed from some web pages.
I will keep you posted.
Molly |
Molly Brent
Hunger Member
Post Number:
55
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, June 19, 2004 - 07:29 am: | |
I do not want a POD publisher, but so many say they are not when they really are. What is the best way to get the truth?
Molly
|
Todd Hunter
Unity Member
Post Number:
1601
Registered: 02-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, June 19, 2004 - 08:01 am: | |
Look at the facts, most of all:
First, try to buy one of their books (try to go for one that isn't a popular success according to the sales ranking on Amazon). Are they available in bookstores, or only online? Are they overpriced compared to other books from known traditional publishers? If you are able to purchase it in a bookstore, ask the manager how they came about to stock the book in their store, by the author's efforts, or by the publisher's sales team?
Once you get a copy of one of their books, read through it...does it appear to be edited? Is the cover art professional? How much effort does it look like went into the back matter (stuff on the back cover)?
And by all means, find out as much info as you can about the publisher.
As an example (and I won't use the name of this publisher, but rest assured, it's not one I have submitted to, or plan to), I found this publisher who proclaims in large font on their website: "We are not a Print-On-Demand (POD) publisher".
However, I decided to run through some of their other statements:
"We do not provide copyediting services...[your manuscript] must be in ready-to-publish format." [No editing]
"We utilize a printer that allows us to print very small runs of books...When our distributors order books, the printer prints them and ships them." [print new copies when new orders come in? that would be 'print on demand']
"As a small publisher, our marketing is centered around the author's ability to generate interest in their books." [author sales force]
This place does accept returns, which is helpful, but the above facts make me very skeptical about the 'non-POD' status. As has been stated in other threads and other forums, POD is honestly just a technology. Instead of looking for merely a 'POD' or 'non-POD' publisher, we should really be looking for what the publisher offers its authors, and how it intends to get our books into the hands of readers. So, Molly, I would ignore whether a publisher tells you "We aren't POD" or not. Look at the facts, and if the facts are lacking on their website, then ask for a full run-down of their processes, ask to speak with their authors, and ask around on the many writer sites (Writer Beware, P&E, etc.).
Honest publishers will have no problem in giving you the information you need...and should have favorable outlooks on the sites.
And last, but not least, if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. |
Claudia Turner VanLydegraf
Mindsight Moderator
Post Number:
1355
Registered: 06-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, June 19, 2004 - 08:40 am: | |
Molly,
Did you get my email to you yesterday afternoon?
The best way to see if they are POD is to see if they charge you a fee. IF they charge you a fee, they are a scam outfit, only interested in producing a book, not actually making an author a well known, well read, writer. The fee is what makes that difference. Same as with agents, if they charge the author, then they won't "sell" you or your book, as they have already made the money from you. They are not interested in selling your book or you to the highest and best, cause you have already told them that you are only worth XXXX, whatever you paid them. If they pay you something, then they have to earn that money back to break even and that means thy have to work on selling your book to the bookstores and retailers out there to get that money back.
Or if the books are printed in runs of 2500 or more. If they are printed in runs or that or more, all at once, then they are not POD. At least that is my take on the differentiation. Yes, printing on demand is technically considered a good thing, but when you print on demand, POD, the price of the book is higher per individual book, because of smaller size of print run, like 6-10 as opposed to offset printing of 2500 or more, brings the cost of the actual print run down, 6-10 costs more per book. True, they have to warehouse them, and keep them available, which slightly adds to the cost, but not as much as the addition of only printing a few books as opposed to 2500 or more.
The biggest thing is, it is a balancing act, that the publisher has to make a choice to either do this way or that based on perceived demand, and if they already know up front, whether or not they will advertise and make that book's worth and needs known or not, is a huge factor. IF they intend to have that book IN every bookstore in the country, like Clinton's then the first run is going to be huge, as they think the demand will be huge. If they only intend to advertise the book to a local market, then the print run will be smaller, but will still have enough to have IN the stores in localized areas, if it is a POD, then the print run is non-existent from the get go, because they only intend to have the author market the book to friends and family, like PA. The big kicker that lets companies like PA get away with saying that they are actually only using the technology, not the author, is that one key thing no one talks about, Print on Demand is a technology that was primarily intended for books that have been out for a while, like Gone with the Wind, and there isn't a BIG need for them everyday, but there is still a call for them, and the publisher could print up 50 or so to meet that call, every once in a while, and have the book available to the marketplace.
But companies like PA have turned that around and started using it for themselves as Publish on Demand, to make themselves seem legitimate publishers by using the technology and saying that it is really the technology rather than the awful truth that it is Publish (not the technology, but the smaller, non-existent, run size, instead of the process of full run printing and SALES to the outside market place that should follow a normal printrun.. Because they don't care if they have books on hand or not, in fact they prefer not to have books on hand at all..... The buyer of the books in the marketplace bears all the cost of the book itself, not the publisher.
Remember that list of friends and family that you sent to PA when you got your contract and they wanted you to supply a list of people you thought would buy your book, that was the firsst kicker about them. They only PRINTED up that many books, may a few dozen more the first time out the chute. That was your first run size. Then whatever other sales were made, the run size was only 6-10 more, or if you put in an order for say 50-250 or even more then they adjusted that amount printed accordingly, to have a few left over, because they knew you were planning on doing lots of advertising on your own, to sell your book. And it behoves them to have a few stocked somewhere, even in one of the Amazon/B&N warehouses, thus the "used" books available.
Many companies will not tell you these things, cause they understand the difference and don't want to let you know what status your book is going to get. If they think that it will only be printed in amounts of 6-10, they won't say a word about print runs and stock and storage, cause they know upfront, that won't be a problem. So you have to ask them things like that in the beginning. Will the book go to a run of 2500 or more and be PHYSICALLY put into stores either locally, or nationally, or will it only be available on order........ POD?
Am I making any sense here?
Claudia |
Molly Brent
Hunger Member
Post Number:
56
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, June 19, 2004 - 09:22 am: | |
Yes, Claudia I got the e mail and took your advice. It was the same as a lot of others.......
In the future, when there is a doubt about being POD, I am going to call the book store and give them an ISBN and title and see if they have it or will order it and do as Todd suggested.......the ones here will not order a POD. I also have a friend who owns a book store and he will tell me which ones have people caling on him etc......
The more I read, the more I think I need an agent, but finding a good one is as hard as finding a publisher....so if any of y'all have a good agent, let me know.
Molly
|
Perry Comer
Unity Member
Post Number:
1407
Registered: 04-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, June 19, 2004 - 11:53 am: | |
Bottom line
1. if you are the "sales force" - don't go there
2. if their books are not found in a bookstore - don't go there
3. if they want money - don't go there
4. if they don't accept returns - don't go there
5. if they don't market --- don't go there
http://www.pacwriter.netfirms.com/ |
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