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Fred Dungan
Unity Member
Post Number:
1402
Registered: 10-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 09:17 pm: |   |
Anyone have information about the new 13 number ISBN? Does it negate the current 10 number ISBN's? Do we have to purchase an upgrade? Is there any advantage to the new numbers? What's going on here? Is Bowkers following the Microsoft example of coming out with upgrades and abandoning those who already purchased an ISBN and don't want to fork over any more money? The practice of providing steep discounts for those who purchase large lots gives a distinct advantage to the large publishing houses over the independents.
Why do we need an ISBN? Why couldn't we use the Library of Congress number to identify books? Why not have a Library of Congress barcode?
How are Bowkers and Ulrich related? Is it true that Bowkers intimidated Publish America into quitting the ebook business? If so, do they walk on their knuckles?
http://www.dunganbooks.com
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LA
Unity Member
Post Number:
2146
Registered: 12-2001
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 01, 2006 - 07:30 am: | |
Fred,
The current 10-digit ISBN's all translate into the 13-digit #'s.
The ISBN is "I"nternational, meaning that number is used around the world. You don't have to know the country of origin that way. To use just the LOC information, that would only be able to identify within the US.
Bowkers didn't intimidate PA into anything. However, PA was fully aware that they were running their ebooks illegally. Each edition of a book has to have its own ISBN. Paperback, hardcover, audio, ebook, braille--those are 5 different ISBN's per title. The publisher does not have to release all 5 options (listed in most contracts as being 5 titles of the work), but if they do, they must assign a new ISBN. I can only assume, since I do not have the inside scoop there, that PA was simply too cheap to purchase the necessary ISBN's. (Maybe they should move to Canada. They wouldn't have to pay for the #'s there. Just kidding to all of our Cannucks on board. I wouldn't wish that illness upon you.)
The number is assigned to be able to identify a specific edition of a specific title, worldwide. This works the same as the UPC symbols on your groceries. The number on canned asparagus is not the same as the number used to trace the fresh asparagus. Meat counter hamburg, prepackaged hamburg, and those prepressed patties all have different numbers, but they're all hamburg, so does it matter? Yes. Inventory tracking, pricing...all those things are different. You wouldn't want to bring all of your beef products back because 1 packing plant in Delaware had an employee who sneezed, would you?
Do you need an ISBN? Well, do you want to be able to get sold at a store at all that isn't run by friends and/or family? Also, this number is used to track sales figures, as well. This keeps publishers from saying, "John Hancock sold 2 million copies" without having proof of said sales. Would you want to see a bunch of morons on the best seller list simply because they had a good PR spinner and not because they actually sold anything?
The new numbers are because by 2007, the existing ISBN's will be exhausted. There have been so many books printed (an ISBN is forever. Never gets reassigned.) that we are running out of numbers. Adding three more digits is a necessary evil to keep the number format standardized. As for purchasing new, no. The number converts very easily, and if the company has the means of producing their own barcode, all the have to do then is generate the barcode, print it on stickers and affix it to existing stock. The ISBN organization has given 3 years notice to allow publishers to cull inventory on items with the existing codes as well as produce the new codes on all current titles, thereby avoiding the necessity of excess work in applying stickers, etc.
Now, of course, Bowkers, the US ISBN Agency, does provide discounts to purchasing larger lots of numbers. But that's just a standard business practice. The more you ship to one location, the less you have to pay for packaing, shipping, and all sorts of other crap, therefore, since you spend less, you can charge less.
There is some connection between Bowkers and Ulrich, but at this moment, I'm unable to recall what it is, and too much paperwork calls my name to dig it up for you.
Did I answer all of your questions?
Got more?
LA
Available now: Gloria Davidson Marlow: THE BUTTERFLY GAME, SHADES OF SILENCE, FLOWERS FOR MEGAN. Joyce Sterling Scarbrough: TRUE BLUE FOREVER |
Fred Dungan
Unity Member
Post Number:
1404
Registered: 10-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 01, 2006 - 12:48 pm: | |
Thank you, LA, for the excellent explanation. While the utility of the ISBN and barcode is evident, the fees seem outrageous. What bothered me is that I can obtain a Library of Congress number in a matter of hours for free, while Bowkers seems to be going for all they can get.
ISBN List of Services & Fees
REGULAR PROCESSING
(15 business days turnaround)
ISBN price list (the categories below include the combined processing fees and registration fees):
10 ISBNs: $249.95
100 ISBNs: $859.95
1000 ISBNs: $1374.95
10,000 ISBNs: $3399.95*
* Selecting this block will entitle you to Express Processing (24 business hour turnaround)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PRIORITY PROCESSING
(48 business hours turnaround)
ISBN price list (the categories below include the combined processing fees and registration fees):
10 ISBNs: $324.95
100 ISBNs: $934.95
1000 ISBNs: $1449.95
10,000 ISBNs: $3399.95*
* Selecting this block will entitle you to Express Processing (24 business hour turnaround)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
EXPRESS PROCESSING
(24 business hours turnaround)
ISBN price list (the categories below include the combined processing fees and registration fees):
10 ISBNs: $374.95
100 ISBNs: $984.95
1000 ISBNs: $1499.95
10,000 ISBNs: $3399.95*
* Selecting this block will entitle you to Express Processing (24 business hour turnaround)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SELECTING BAR CODES:
The EAN-13 bar codes are the bar code translations for ISBNs. Most bookstores, distributors, and industry related sectors require EAN-13 bar codes on books and book type products.
Bar code price list:
1-5 bar codes: $25 per bar code
(i.e. 3 bar codes at $25 per unit will total $75)
6-10 bar codes: $23 per bar code
(i.e. 6 bar codes at $23 per unit will total $138)
11-100 bar codes: $21 per bar code
(i.e. 11 bar codes at $21 per unit will total $231)
http://www.fdungan.com/vigilantes.htm |
Fred Dungan
Unity Member
Post Number:
1405
Registered: 10-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 01, 2006 - 12:56 pm: | |
There was a time in this country when, if you were granted a public monopoly, you had to be able to justify your fees. I suppose that is no longer the case.
http://www.dunganbooks.com
|
LA
Unity Member
Post Number:
2147
Registered: 12-2001
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 11:26 am: | |
Oh, well, see, I don't have to pay for my barcodes. I found a generator that has been in trial status that I got to test for free. Well, technically, it does cost me a copy of each book for which the barcode is used. Not a bad deal, if you ask me.
Apparently, the rate must have gone up. My last lot of 10 ran $225 Maybe their trying to make up for all those freebie numbers in Canada. LOL. (I do so love to pick on JennieLynn.)
LA
Available now: Gloria Davidson Marlow: THE BUTTERFLY GAME, SHADES OF SILENCE, FLOWERS FOR MEGAN. Joyce Sterling Scarbrough: TRUE BLUE FOREVER |
Fred Dungan
Unity Member
Post Number:
1408
Registered: 10-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 01:21 pm: | |
The registration fee is the same whether you print 10 or 5 million books for any given title. This, along with the discounts for the big publishing houses who can afford to purchase their ISBN's in bulk, ensures that the playing field is unjustly tilted against small and/or independent publishers. Shame on Bowkers. They are abusing their monopoly.
http://www.fdungan.com/vigilantes.htm |
Fred Dungan
Unity Member
Post Number:
1521
Registered: 10-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, March 24, 2006 - 08:55 pm: | |
For small U.S. publishers, especially POD, ISBN's may add as much as $2 or $3 to the price of each book. You might recall that PA chose to drop their ebook downloads rather than pay for seperate ISBN's.
Since I felt that these charges were discrimatory and excessive, I wrote the international agency in Berlin, Germany, which regulates these matters and asked them to investigate. The following email messages are a partial record of that correspondence. Please note that it is being posted to this and other boards with the permission of the US ISBN agency.
From: Fred Dungan
To: isbn@sbb.spk-berlin.de
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 11:48 AM
Subject: ISBN's in the United States
Why does Bowker's have a monopoly on ISBN's in the United States? Have you checked the price? Doesn't it seem high when compared to a neighboring country such as Canada? It seems to me that Bowker's has abused its privileged status.
Sincerely,
Fred Dungan
DUNGAN BOOKS
http://www.dunganbooks.com
From: Fred Dungan
To: isbn@sbb.spk-berlin.de
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 2:26 PM
Subject: Re: ISBN's in the United States
The prices in the United States for ISBN's are heavily skewed in favor of the large publishing houses. Thus, a small publisher who buys a block of 10 ISBN's pays $24.95 each while a large publishing house only pays $0.33 each for a block of 10,000 ISBN's. It is not fair for you, as an international governing commission, to permit this to happen.
Bowker's has tilted the playing field heavily in favor of the large publishing houses. It is impossible for an independent publisher to compete under these conditions. I strongly urge you to remedy this situation.
Sincerely,
Fred Dungan
DUNGAN BOOKS
http://www.dunganbooks.com
From: Brian Green
To: 'Fred Dungan' ; isbn@sbb.spk-berlin.de
Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 2:46 AM
Subject: RE: ISBN's in the United States
Dear Mr Dungan
Our ISBN colleagues in Berlin have passed me your emails so that I can respond in my capacity as the incoming director of the International ISBN Agency.
It is quite normal for ISBN agencies to charge proportionately less when selling a large block of ISBNs since a great part of the administrative cost, as you can imagine, is in the actual setting up of the publisher on the system. Therefore, the cost per ISBN is bound to be relatively lower for a large publisher buying 10,000 ISBNs than for a small publisher buying 10 ISBNs.
The variation between the prices charged by different agencies is a result of the very different nature of the organisations operating ISBN agencies in various countries. In Canada, for example, the ISBN Agency is in the National Library and is therefore supported by public funding, whereas Bowker in the US are a commercial organisation and receive no public funding.
I hope that this helps to explain the situation.
Regards
Brian Green
From: Fred Dungan [mailto:freddungan@sbcglobal.net]
Sent: 21 March 2006 02:32
To: Brian Green
Subject: Re: ISBN's in the United States
Dear Mr. Green,
When I clicked on the home button of your website, it disclosed the following information:
As the U.S. ISBN Agency, R R Bowker is the exclusive US source of publisher prefixes and accompanying ranges of ISBN numbers for eligible publishers.
It would seem that the U.S. ISBN Agency and R R Bowker are one and the same, leading me to believe that there is no oversight whatsoever.
Having to pay 80 times what the big guys pay plus expediting fees is an outrage. Especially, when it must be paid to a monopoly posing as an international agency sanctioned public service.
Sincerely,
Fred Dungan
DUNGAN BOOKS
http://www.dunganbooks.com
From: Fred Dungan [mailto:freddungan@sbcglobal.net]
Sent: 17 March 2006 00:29
To: Brian Green
Subject: Re: ISBN's in the United States
Dear Mr. Green,
Do you or the members of your executive board have any objections to publishing our correspondence on the publishing industry message boards? The ISBN overseers have given Bowker's a license to steal. I certainly wouldn't mind taking the matter up with the court of public opinion. Charging the rich 33 cents for which the poor must pay $24.95 plus expediting fees is a slippery slope that no fair-minded person could possibly view as being a level playing field.
Sincerely,
Fred Dungan
DUNGAN BOOKS
http://www.dunganbooks.com
From: Brian Green
To: 'Fred Dungan'
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 11:39 AM
Subject: RE: ISBN's in the United States
Dear Mr Dungan
Of course we have no objections to you publishing our correspondence.
You could also refer people to the scale of fees on the US ISBN agency website, http://www.isbn.org/standards/home/isbn/us/isbn-fees.asp
Regards. Brian Green
International ISBN Agency
http://www.dunganbooks.com |
Fred Dungan
Unity Member
Post Number:
1553
Registered: 10-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 06, 2006 - 10:14 pm: | |
I've decided to dispense with the middlemen and publish books without ISBN's.
http://www.dunganbooks.com |
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