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Message |
    
Mark A. York (Unregistered Guest)
Work-in-progress guest
Posted From: 67.27.69.163
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 22, 2003 - 02:48 pm: |   |
I don't know publisher-production company? This really fringy. I stand by my remarks. |
Mark A. York (Unregistered Guest)
Work-in-progress guest
Posted From: 67.27.69.163
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 22, 2003 - 02:49 pm: | |
I don't know publisher-production company? This is really fringy. I stand by my remarks. |
Todd Hunter
Wisdom Member
Post Number:
818
Registered: 02-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 22, 2003 - 03:36 pm: | |
I'm currently reading a book by a Timberwolf author...
from the looks of it, it doesn't appear to be a POD company...
You're entitled to your opinion, Mr. York...
but if there were money on it, Nancy and Laurel have my vote... |
Laurel Johnson
Unity Member
Post Number:
2361
Registered: 01-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 22, 2003 - 05:18 pm: | |
heh heh heh. Thanks Todd. Nancy and I don't make unequivocal statements unless we know whereof we speak. Otherwise I keep my mouth shut and let the fray clang on around me.
Personally, I am one who thinks the anti POD clamor is snobbish. There are some good POD houses who DO accept returns, who DO place their books in bookstores and DO have stringent in house editing and DON't expect the authors to hawk their own books endlessly. Those houses do not have disgruntled authors posting on message boards so we don't hear about them. |
pacwriter
Wisdom Member
Post Number:
999
Registered: 04-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 22, 2003 - 05:20 pm: | |
Laurel
Please post a few of those POD houses. I would love to look at new possibilities.
http://www.pacwriter.netfirms.com/ |
Mark A. York (Unregistered Guest)
Work-in-progress guest
Posted From: 67.25.246.250
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 22, 2003 - 06:05 pm: | |
Right we'd love to know the wherabouts of these PODs. Meanwhile the www.ftc.gov has the goods on PA. |
Gloria Marlow
Hsympothai Member
Post Number:
473
Registered: 04-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 22, 2003 - 06:20 pm: | |
Laurel,
I think you've hit the nail on the head...Writers are an elitist, snobby bunch in my opinion (present company mostly excluded). I have said it before and I will say it again: Now that looking at book spines has become a passion of mine, I find that most of the books in bookstores are put out by publishers other than the best known ones.
Anyway, I think we shouldn't be snobbish about how someone got published. I think readers don't give a &%$*. I think acting like anyone who published with PA is a poor, desperate no-talent is wrong (that doesn't mean I don't see problems with PA). And I think acting like people who are published with traditional independent book publishers are dumber than those published by the big houses is just silly.
Gloria
|
Marshall S Thomas
Awareness Member
Post Number:
26
Registered: 07-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 22, 2003 - 08:10 pm: | |
Hi All,
Timberwolf is a well-respected traditional publisher that is also a cutting edge audio publisher. They do unabridged audio CD's of all their books, in various formats. They also do e-book versions. They gave me an advance that made me happy and they put a lot of money into the audio product, a nine hour CD which is very good. It's not POD and not a vanity press. It's true, you can't stroll into your corner bookstore and find their books there but they will be available on the book store's computer if it's in print and also at amazon.com as well as Timberwolf press and several other places on line and off. Timberwolf isn't a big company but they are well respected.
The only problem I've run into is trying to get them to do a decent sized print run. They want to make sure people will buy it first, I guess. That's why I'm concerned about advertising.
If you'd like to learn more go to timberwolfpress.com.
Regards, Marshall |
Marshall S Thomas
Awareness Member
Post Number:
27
Registered: 07-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 22, 2003 - 08:25 pm: | |
Hi Kitty!
Thanks for the critique! I appreciate it, and I'll use your suggestion to work something up. I've never done this before, so had no idea how to present it.
I'll let everybody know when my web site goes on line.
Thanks!!!
Regards, Marshall |
Mark A. York (Unregistered Guest)
Work-in-progress guest
Posted From: 67.24.78.204
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 22, 2003 - 08:46 pm: | |
What's a "decent sized" print run and why can't they be found in any bookstore? Snobs have nothing to do with quality. |
Mark A. York (Unregistered Guest)
Work-in-progress guest
Posted From: 67.24.78.204
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 22, 2003 - 08:49 pm: | |
Both of my POD books can be found on any stores computer. |
Nancy Mehl
Mindsight Moderator
Post Number:
1371
Registered: 08-2001
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 22, 2003 - 10:05 pm: | |
Mark,
What point are you trying to make? There is no purpose in going after Timberwolf - a company you obviously know nothing about.
Or do you just hate all publishers?
Nancy |
Laurel Johnson
Unity Member
Post Number:
2362
Registered: 01-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 23, 2003 - 04:49 am: | |
A snobby attitude towards POD and self published authors has nothing to do with quality. You are right there, Mark. That was exactly my point. Major publishers, major book stores etc look down on POD published books and authors.
I will look through my books later to find some more names but three POD publishers that have books physically in the book store or stores AND in the computers in Lincoln are:
Dandelion Books -
iUniverse
1stBooks Library
Yes, I know. iUniverse and 1stBooks are subsidy presses as well as POD but they are indeed in the book store / stores in Lincoln. And they have return policies IF the book store returns the books intact and does not deface or rip the covers off.
My PA published book is also in the computer and at least one book store in Lincoln if not more. |
pacwriter
Unity Member
Post Number:
1001
Registered: 04-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 23, 2003 - 05:40 am: | |
thanks Laurel for looking
I contacted Borders HQ as the local Wldenbooks manager told me but so far nothing has come of it. I think the managers of Waldens, etc have more control over what they stock they they are wiling to admit.
http://www.pacwriter.netfirms.com/ |
Todd Hunter
Wisdom Member
Post Number:
825
Registered: 02-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 23, 2003 - 05:44 am: | |
Nancy, I think he just has any publisher in his sights that doesn't put books on a shelf in a store...
He also has a habit of running his mouth without knowing all the facts...in my opinion...it sounds here, like he just visited their website, and based all his opinions on what he found there...a little research goes a long way.
My PA-published book is located on the shelves of 3 or 4 stores here. And you know what, it doesn't make a hill of beans...I still get the majority of orders from personal contacts...
Books on a store shelf DO NOT MATTER, if no one knows who you are...who in the world has the time to sift through thousands of books on a shelf tucked in the far reaches of a store? Unless you're lucky enough to get something on one of the promotional tables in an aisle or in a display, it's no better than being available through the ordering system. |
Todd Hunter
Wisdom Member
Post Number:
826
Registered: 02-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 23, 2003 - 05:48 am: | |
Pac,
All managers can bend the rules if they want to...it's just that many don't want to...because if they make a bad choice, and get stuck with unsellable stock, it'll get noticed fairly quickly by those above them on the corporate ladder. |
Mark A. York (Unregistered Guest)
Work-in-progress guest
Posted From: 67.24.75.40
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 23, 2003 - 11:00 am: | |
That's what I thought. Unfortunately it won't matter a lick what your writing ability is with vanity presses. You're just the slush that was printed. PA is another matter. That's fraud. They don't promote, send out reviews or operate in any way different, as promosed, than a paid vanity press except the rights are commandeered for a dollar. Good deal for them, bad for you.
If you promote, usually at great personal expense, and buy your own books they make out on the point-of-sale at ridiculous prices based on page count. Search Amazon for the early PA books. Tragic. What do you get? About a dollar a piece. There are no returns on any of these POD books. You're digging deep to justify a system designed to fail you. Denial is more than a river in Egypt.
What CD? What's that about? |
sophie simonet
Wisdom Member
Post Number:
689
Registered: 03-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 23, 2003 - 11:18 am: | |
What you said, Todd, pretty much fits in with my book-buying practices. I will browse in bookstores, but I don't usually buy something cold. The last book I bought in Borders was "Cold Mountain" and only because I'd heard about it from somewhere. The one I bought before that was "Sea Glass" because I enjoy Anita Shreve's books.
I went on Amazon.com because I was curious to find out what other people thought of "Cold Mountain" and found many recommendations for "The Black Flower," another Civil War novel, so I ordered that. I buy as many books online as I do from Borders or B&N. I will rarely buy a book by an unknown author unless it has won an award or comes highly recommended.
I've read some disappointing novels by the major publishers and some worthy POD books, so publisher to me is not much of a barometer. My main objection to POD books is that they are generally unedited. Having said that, there are increasingly less books from anywhere that are error-free.
www.authorsden.com/sophiesimonet |
Laurel Johnson
Unity Member
Post Number:
2363
Registered: 01-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 23, 2003 - 11:28 am: | |
The Lincoln NE book stores look more kindly on self pubbed books than they do POD pubbed books for some reason. They feature many many self pubbed authors and host book signings galore, sponsor readings etc for self pubbed authors.
Why? I have no idea, except that the iUniverse books for certain are priced competitively they say. iUniverse and 1stBooks both pay 20-30% royalties and provide an author friendly contract. I know I know I know. It's one of the seven deadliest sins and a shameful blight for an author to have to pay someone to publish their books. But many authors I know do so to get control over their work and large royalties. I did that with my second book and did not regret it return wise. And I'll do it again with another if I ever get another finished. It's not for everyone but worked out well for me.
The audio CD's Timberwolf produces are awesome - like an audio enactment of the book complete with actors playing each character. |
Mark A. York (Unregistered Guest)
Work-in-progress guest
Posted From: 67.24.75.40
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 23, 2003 - 01:40 pm: | |
Well, iUniverse is located in Lincoln, NB for starters. They're also business partners with B&N to a point. And it's not much of a point; occasionally as one New Jersey author pointed out they had a small stack of POD's back by the restroom. It's a sad caste system for a reason. The reason is real whether you like it or not. The price is low for iU and you and I get to keep the rights that can be sold to a real publisher, that's the only good thing about it.
The prices have doubled since I did it and that will drive more naive writers to PA. PA operates differently. Regardless most of ones I look at are sadly presented online: no excerpt, TOC, reviewed by friends only, not Kirkus, Library Journal and so on. Write a good book; sell it to a real publisher; repeat. There are no shortcuts worth taking.
Who pays for these nonunion actors, and how much? I'm a union actor. So is every other actor you can name and 100,000 you can't. |
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